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NJJ Inner circle 6437 Posts |
I have an odd problem in that it takes me a while to set a fee.
So if someone rings up for a event which I HAVE a price for, I can give them a quote straight away. E.g. two hours close up = $1 However, what if that two hours close up is two hours drive away...or they want a 'custom' routine...or for me to wear a t-shirt with their logo....I takes me a while to think of a price and it that time I can (and have) lost gigs. Do you have a formula for setting your prices 'on the fly'? |
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magic4u02 Eternal Order Philadelphia, PA 15110 Posts |
Nicholas:
Great question. I can only tell you how I have done it and what works for me to be able to better give them an answer as quickly as I can and to cover all my basis as well. It certainly is not a fix-all, but some of this has helped me a great deal in setting my prices. The first thing I did to help with the driving and the gas issue is to set up a large map in my office and near my phone that has 20 mile radius rings in pen from my home base and around the areas in which I am willing to travel for a show. Each pen ring has with it a certain amount I know I need for gas and for travel expense. I then can easily start to be aware of where the gig is when talking with the person and what ring they are in. Because I also do a lot of festival work, I have also set up set packages or what I call date rate packages. These are based upon what I have found out to be the most requested items that my clients have asked for over the years. I have also set up rates for my other show offerings, as I am sure you have done as well. I then take all of this information and place it onto a price sheet that I have near every phone in my house and even in my car. It is my pricing cheat sheet and on it I have my prices for various venues and shows as well as broken down prices based upon location as well. It really is a simple sheet that instantly enables me to give a fairly accurate quote in a very short period of time. Is this a cure all, certainly not, but it begins to help me feel relaxed and comfortable with the prices I give to my clients and knowing that I am fairly close in giving a fair and reasonable rate that I can live with as well. If I feel that I am at a loss at the moment with a quote, I can always say that I would like to be able to take down their e-mail so that I can make and send them a more formal quote and have that e-mailed to them in the next 24 hours. This will then have everything spelled out clearly for them. Now in this way, I am giving myself more time to really figure it out, but from the prospect point of view, I am doing them a favor by going that extra mile to get something to them in writing. I hope some of this may help you. As I said it is not the perfect solution by any means, but it works for me and can be adapted for others as well. I hope it helps. Kyle
Kyle Peron
http://www.kylekellymagic.com Entertainers Product Site http://kpmagicproducts.com Join Our Facebook Fan Page at http://facebook.com/perondesign |
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icentertainment Inner circle 1429 Posts |
You gotta slow the customer down.
say There's a few things I need to know before I can quote because the last time I quoted on a show with no knowledge of the actual event I ended up in the blue mountains and then I had to redo the quote. What this does it it starts the conversation off a little differently, it changes the mood as it (whilst it isn't super funny) it is a nice way of slowing them down. Then you might say- I don't want to under charge or over charge you which would be inappropriate so Where is the event How many people do you have any other entertainment planned. what is the date of the event also get them to tell you about the event- you may have another solution that they never event thought of. what's the theme etc Now what I do is I will send them an info pack with performance video and a proposal. If they want it really quicky say I'll email you the proposal today- what is your email address (good for mailing list) if they continue saying what's ball park do you think. say I don't know- I'll have to check how long it will take to get to the event I don't want to quote you something that may be wrong. just be honest Only the really cheapo people book solely on price so you being good probably are too expensive for them anyway. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Nicholas it is an interesting question.
An easy way to gain some time is to quote a ballpark figure, one that is close and mention how you will have to figure the expenses and get back to them as soon as possible. I do this when I have to fly, which happens a LOT. This way you have some time to calculate and never leave yourself short thinking the expenses are lower than they are. I once actually ended up PAYING to do a show in Eugene Oregon. It was so expensive to fly there that it ate up my quote in a hurry. You buy time and get back to them when you have the knowledge you need. That is the bottom line here. This also puts you in a better position because you have all the knowledge you will need to close the sale, and that is important. You can have all the contracts ready to go. Never make decisions on the fly. Always find out info then get back to them. This is common practice when businesses deal with quotes from printers or any other business. It is common and won't be a bad thing to do.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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suspectacts Elite user Boston 493 Posts |
Nickolas:
The best lesson is learning when to say "I need more time." People will often try to rush you and other times the sense of urgency is something you assume. You are a magician not an EMT and there are very few conditions where people need to know 'right now.' Like Kyle I often tell people I would like to get back to them with a written proposal, but other times I just say, "Well I will need to charge you 'something' but as you know this is a special request, so I will need some time to generate a correct price for you.' Here's another ploy: Let them know that you are slightly 'in dispose'. I use my cell phone as my only phone these days so I will sometimes tell people I will need to call them back 'when I am at my desk,' even when I am sitting at my desk. As a final suggestion, when you get a request and generate a price, make a note of it and add it to your posted price list (I started posting one just for myself so I wouldn't stumble over my prices or end up 'low-balling' myself when I can hear the client is on the fence about pricing). My pricelist includes fees for extra-long drive, an easy customization (wear a t-shirt etc.). But telling them you need a couple of minutes to think is often your best bet. If they can't wait an hour to get a number, they probably can't afford what you want. Peter Gross Boston Hysterical Society |
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Skip Way Inner circle 3771 Posts |
I use a system of matrixes that allow me to calculate most fees at a glance as the details are being discussed.
Frankly, I suck royally as a negotiator. So, I personally use a flat rate fee matrix for local appearances. I first determined what my hourly value is taking into account my various expenses, taxes, etc. I tack on a certain amount for the initial hour. Using your example, I may charge $2.00 for the initial hour and $1.50 for each consecutive hour. For events of 4 or more hours, I drop $.50 from the initial hour charge and stick with the hourly rate. For travel charges I use a distance matrix. My home county is fairly good size, so within the the county there is no travel charge. Outside of the county I charge a flat rate $25.00 per hour (or portion of an hour) travel charge, round trip. This covers any potential overnight stays on extended trips and helps me recover a level of potential performance income lost while traveling. All distances outside of my home county are based on MapQuest travel time estimates from my home. Then, I have (This is gonna sound bad!) an annoyance surcharge matrix. There are just some shows and locations that I simply do NOT want to do...but, I will if the price is right. The schedule has five levels ranging from (per your example) $.50 for a minor inconvenience to $3.00 for a royal pain in the patoot. Not very professional, but it works for me. I have my discount matrix which lists discounted fees for various select groups. For example, I never charge Make-A-Wish or any of the local children's hospitals for benefits. I give PTA's, Scouts and church youth programs a 25% discounted fee. Referring clients get a 10% discounted fee. Finally, I have my up-sell matrix. Once we've reached an agreement on the basic fee, I'll offer additional services such as balloon sculpting, face painting, gift bags, premiums, BOR sale items, etc at an additional cost. All of this information is on a single sheet in the back of my schedule book so I can turn to it as we "negotiate". I stick to the fees listed...otherwise, my huge heart overrides my puny businessman's spine and I wind up often giving profitable shows away. Works for me...its not for everyone. :o) Skip
How you leave others feeling after an Experience with you becomes your Trademark.
Magic Youth Raleigh - RaleighMagicClub.org |
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magicurt Loyal user alabama 222 Posts |
$2.00 an hour, I'll book ya. LOL
Curt P.S. I know it is an example not your rate. |
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Skip Way Inner circle 3771 Posts |
Um...no...actually it's $2.00 an hour. But, that doesn't include my $198.00 "performance guarantee" surcharge.
:o) Skip
How you leave others feeling after an Experience with you becomes your Trademark.
Magic Youth Raleigh - RaleighMagicClub.org |
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magicurt Loyal user alabama 222 Posts |
Love the fine print, Good contract skip!!!
Curt |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
I have never been a fan of the " do you want fries with that" school of pricing. It seems to cheapen what we do to me.
I should say that almost all of my bookings come from people who have seen me and know what I do and expect it.The add ons would look really bad for me to do. It just seems like you sharking for money and people are often put off by that.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Deke Rivers Loyal user 216 Posts |
The best advice I ever got was from Kevin King. He said to "get it all." Find out their budget, and make sure that's what your fee will be. And why not? No two shows are alike, and there's gotta be SOME reason why our show meets their budget. Put together a show that's of the quality they can afford.
If you have a standard market -- libraries, for example -- determine what the typical top-end budget is for events in that market, and set that as your price. Do your homework. |
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icentertainment Inner circle 1429 Posts |
I agree with Rivers but it's not always possible, it can sometimes work against you as
Magician: What's you budget- customer: $600- magician: well my show is now $600 The above is how it can translate from a customer point of view. I ask who else they are considering which is the same thing if you know approx what other people are charging- and guess-timate-- if it's a no name brand I'll probably say "I've never heard of him well this is my fee and go with my standard corporate fee If they have said a name brand I would probably decide on a price that I think is good for me but is similar to the name brand. Also I ask what else is going on at the event,- other entertainemnt, etc- I use the Mike Ammar- Negotiating higher performance fee's from his book. |
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MagicalPirate Special user Shamokin, PA 828 Posts |
I see no problem with the upsell system. I booked a fair for my Doc Act. I then offered an addon of balloon twisting. Having been to this fair before as a vendor I was aware they hired balloon twisting and by adding it on I made myself more valuable to them. They didn't have to hire the balloon blowing goat. When they did tell me to send them a contract I had to ask with or without balloons as they had not specified. They wanted the whole package. Choices for the client just show that you know they may have other needs as well.
Martin
Martin Blakley, CSH, DASH, CMSA
http://www.thehypnoguy.com/HYPNORESOURCES http://www.docgrayson.com/ How To Sell Anything Online http://tub.bz/?r=1z Copyright to my own words retained 100%. |
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Deke Rivers Loyal user 216 Posts |
Icentertainment I agree. If you present it like that, it would turn away business. However, setting prices and selling is not as direct as stated in icentertainment's post. You first find out the information: who, what, when, where, how. Audience makeup -- ages, attendance. Performing conditions. Having good background information is crucial to presenting a proposal that will be accepted.
There are SO many ways to adapt your show to meet their needs and budget. If they have $2,500, do you think they'll hire a $600 show? Heck, no! They'll spend the $2,500, EVEN IF THEY BUY A SHOW THAT'S EXTREMELY SIMILAR TO YOUR $600 SHOW! If they have $2,500, you had better offer them a $2,500 show, 'cause if you underprice it, they'll find a $2,500 show elsewhere. I don't like the Ammar tape (which, incidentally, isn't his at all. It's an extremely poor interpetation -- dare I say ripoff? -- of Roger Dawson's negotiation program from Nightengale-Conant, right down to the "kidnapped" example!) I think it's cheap and obvious. I can't say this for sure, but it always seemed to me that this tape was Michael's attempt to jump on the popular "marketing magic" bandwagon, and perhaps doesn't really reflect the way he negotiates fees (of course, this is just my opinion, with no basis in fact.) I just don't think it's solid advice. He's a great magician, but I don't know if marketing is his strong suit. |
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Ken Dyne Inner circle UK 2268 Posts |
This is the way I look at pricing.
A singer here in the UK charges £150 - £300 for a spot. There are a lot of singers. There are not many people who can do what we do, so charge accordingly. Just a thought, Kennedy
MR GOLDEN BALLS 2.0: https://mentalunderground.com/product/mr-golden-balls-2-0/" target="_blank"> https://mentalunderground.com/product/passed-out-deck/
BAIRN: Named 'Best Mentalism Product Of 2014 by Marketplace of the Mind is my collection of more than 40 mentalism routines in a beautiful paperback book: http://www.mentalunderground.com/product/bairn |
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Starry Loyal user New York 219 Posts |
I probably make much more than I'm worth. Not just because I'm worthless either. But I was told by a magician mentor a long time ago to say "I have several different shows at different price levels... depending upon the size of illusions needed, number of assistants, animals, etc. I'm sure we can find a show to fit your entertainment budget. How much have you budgeted for the entertainment for this event?" Of course when they say $10,000 you'd better have a $10,000 show waiting.
It may not work for you, but it worked for me. -Ace
Ace Starry - Author or THE MAGIC LIFE - A NOVEL PHILOSOPHY
http://www.starry.com/ |
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MattWayne Special user Manhattan, NY | Studio City, CA 624 Posts |
Here's a psychological concept:
Have three show packages- .Bronze .Silver .Gold Bronze was my close up act. (Weekly income) Silver was my stand up show. (Good added bonus) Gold was my corporate/illusion show. ($$$) Psychologically everyone wants Gold. Why? It's better than bronze. So you have a lot of backing to support that gold show. This is just a secret I have that I use in marketing and selling my acts. Trust me- I got far with this and still am doing well. Using this method- enables me to do this for a living. Try it; just think about it and how this could be so effective. I won't mention everything. Personally I think it's too good of a concept:) Hope you like this, Best always, Matt
Matt Wayne
The Celebrity Magicianâ„¢ www.CelebrityMagician.com / youtube.com/celebritymagician / twitter.com/RealMattWayne / Facebook.com/CelebrityMagician Creator of, 'Got a Light?' and others. Spokesperson behind, TouchTricks |
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Starrpower Inner circle 4070 Posts |
That's true. That's why my "I Love My Child" package always sells better than my "Cheapskate Party Package." Nobody wants to be perceived as a cheapskate, but everyone wants you to believe that they love their child. It works!
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Joe Xavier Regular user Borneo Islands 149 Posts |
Quote:
That's true. That's why my "I Love My Child" package always sells better than my "Cheapskate Party Package." Nobody wants to be perceived as a cheapskate, but everyone wants you to believe that they love their child. It works! Do you actually use those terms in your package? lol! |
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icentertainment Inner circle 1429 Posts |
I used the bronze silver gold platinum packages when I was hitting the wedding market---but I have sice changed it as I felt it didn't work- I now call it
Package 1: Elite Roving Entertainment Package 2: The Stage show (with a few extra salesy words) and Package 3: The Ultimate Entertainment solution I'll say Ultimate 1 more time as I know nic hates the word) Keep it simple for the customers- and reduce the amount they have to read in order to get to the product info- I say Ultimate Cheers Dav Ultimate |
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