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otter606 New user Scotland 89 Posts |
Hi,
As you all know there are loads of great effects involving loading an unseen coin into a specs hand - which are rather ruined if they open their hands too soon! E.g., I have started doing David Roth's Fugitive coins lately- great effect, technically easy, very fair looking as the spec does nearly everthing themselves, which has 2 outcomes - either they are fried completely and have their faith in their own perception shattered, or they open their hand "before the magic happens". My usual patter is to say something about not making it too easy for me, or not letting me getting my fingers secretly in, or something like that, and then looking at them in the eye so they are tempted to look at me and not at their hand. I really like the idea of involving the spectator, especially children, who like to feel the magic happen themselves, but are also very curious, so any tips would be greatly appreciated! Thank you! |
Daegs Inner circle USA 4291 Posts |
I would say sponge balls for kids, but also I would be wary of loading anything into a kids hands early(they looooove to look).
The phsyical tip I can give is turn their hand palm down, so if they opened the coins would fall on the floor... this helps because to look they would turn their hand over which not only gives you time to stop them but involves a pre-action which makes it harder to get the idea to open their hand. The mental part is that you need to DIRECT THEIR ATTENTION. If they are engaged(and you don't have to stare at them) with something, then they will not have the oppertunity to open. With coins, once I close their hand and turn it over, I direct attention to the coin in my hand, then I put it in a hand, vanish it and then ask them to open their hand(actually after the vanish and "I'm clean" gesture I just look at their hand and they get it). The point is that at no point after they are "dirty" do they ever have a chance be thinking about anything other than what I want them too... this isn't fast paced, its about audience control. Think about where you want them looking and what you want them thinking, and just don't leave any gaps in while they are dirty.... keep them interested until the right time. |
ithomson Veteran user 330 Posts |
I would suggest closing their fingers over the coins, and then turning their closed fist over so that the back of their hand is uppermost.
This way they have to turn their hand over before opening it, otherwise the coin(s) would fall out. This psychological ploy stops them opening their hand out of idle curiousity, as they have to do a little more work than if their hand was palm up. Plus, if they do get curious, it gives you a split second longer (while they're turning their hand over) to interrupt and stop them before it's too late. This works for me. I hope it helps. Ian P.S. This posting crossed with Daegs, and basically says the same thing. So (as Ford Prefect would say), it must be true! |
jolyonjenkins Inner circle United Kingdom 1181 Posts |
Children's hands can be quite small; if you load them with four large coins, it can be difficult for them to completely close the hand over all of them
Jolyon Jenkins
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Dan LeFay Inner circle Holland 1371 Posts |
Do not mangle a spectators hand to secure your surprise. Even if she can not open it the game is lost. The moment a spectator wants to open her hand and she either does, or is prevented by your hand pressing down the magic has failed.
The technique here is attention of direction. Make shure she has something other in mind than the coins in her hand. Here is a strategy I used a while back. It is rather blunt, but it makes clear what I mean: The last coin (s***l) is placed on a table in full view. All attention is there because you ask "Would it be real magick if the coin will disappear from the table without me touching it?" Everyone agrees. Alsmost as an afterthought you say to the spectator "Here, hold these in your fist, don't drop them or let anyone touch them!" You say this because your bodylanguage is directed towards the coin on the table and obviously you need both hands to do what you just claimed. Build up tension and cover the coin on the table. Lift your hand and smile, saying: "Yea right, I'm a cool magician but I'm not Harry Potter." They will laugh as a release of tension and because they were willing to believe you could actually do that. Comment on that fact ("you are willing to believe miracles do happen!") Now do your spidervanish (or what ever to vanish the last coin in your hand) "Believe me they DO. But only with the help of someone...like you!" Now direct attention to the spectator holding the coins. She will open here hand now...Magic. Try this plot. It is not subtle I agree, but you will come up with something more subtle if you make this work. I hope this helps you.
"Things need not have happened to be true.
Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths, that will endure when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot." Neil Gaiman |
otter606 New user Scotland 89 Posts |
Thanks for the replies. I'm not an experienced performer so I'm trying to work out if
its technique or a presentation problem, probably both! But yes, thanks for the tip daegs on moving attention back to my hands straight away. I probably betray some concern when I put the coin in their hands as well, I guess I should try to do it more nonchanantly to disarm their suspicions. |
Adam Keisner Veteran user London 335 Posts |
Hi Otter I have a video clip on my website, towards the end of this showreel is some footage of me loading the spectators hand with some thing different to what she thinks. Although not specifically dealing with what your looking for it addresses some aspcets of what Ian Thomson rightly talks about. Hope this helps
Adam http://www.keisner.com |
Darrin Cook Special user 621 Posts |
Great idea, Dan.
I think your handling builds surprise by directing attention toward the "coin" on the table. And I believe that surprise is key to the strongest routines. |
Dan LeFay Inner circle Holland 1371 Posts |
I do not overestimate the role of surprise in all of magic but in this case it not only works but it enhances the magic.
Same ploy as in spongeballs when you convince the spectator that hers is going to disappear from her hand when the opposite occurs. If a spectator wants to open her hand before the final magic denouement, the magic is lost, indifferent if she realley opens it or not (if you prevent it). So the real technique lies in the part to direct her mind away from the notion of opening the hand. I am experienced, but in no way an expert. I use coins across almost daily and have "pre-openers" in about 5% of my performances. I work hard for less, but I can live with it (because I'd rather get caught than mauling a spectator's hand).
"Things need not have happened to be true.
Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths, that will endure when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot." Neil Gaiman |
Cory Gallupe Inner circle Nova Scotia, Canada 1272 Posts |
How in the world could you put a coin in a persons hand without them knowing? Unless it was really small I don't know how that would work, even with misdirection.
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Jordini Inner circle 2765 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-10-30 20:07, themagicman101 wrote: Usually it is loaded secretly with other coins. E.G. you show 3 coins and place them in a spectators hands, but secretly there are 4 coins. |
wsduncan Inner circle Seattle, WA 3619 Posts |
Simply have them put their hands behind their back before removing one of the coins. That way you "can't get at the hand or the coins" and they are "in control".
Having to do the tasks you request of them with their hands behind their back will be just difficult enough to distract them from what you don't want them to notice. best, bill |
ithomson Veteran user 330 Posts |
Sorry for the delay, but I've only just noticed this topic had been added to.
Quote:
On 2005-10-28 05:07, Dan LeFay wrote: I agree. But I didn't say mangle. I said close. And if you want an even better way of doing this, take a look at Wayne Dobson's work. I do agree that if the customer even thinks of opening their hand, you've lost the moment for them ... but perhaps for them alone. These suggestions are meant to recover that lost moment so that other spectators don't lose their moment too. Only suggestions, of course. Ian |
Dan LeFay Inner circle Holland 1371 Posts |
Man I would LOVE to learn how Wayne Dobson handles this. I think he is awesome!
Is his work on handling a spectator's hand somewhere in print or taped?
"Things need not have happened to be true.
Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths, that will endure when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot." Neil Gaiman |
ithomson Veteran user 330 Posts |
Dan
I'm not sure if Dobson's handling of this sort of stuff is taped, but I learned of it in one of his lectures. It's also covered in his handling of "Lethal Tender" ("Metamorphosis") ... or at least, I think it is. I will dig it out when I'm back in my office and try to write it down for you, if that's okay. I've been using it as an ending in my walkaround Coins Across routine for a long time, as well as "Metamorphosis", and it's reasonably clean. I share your respect of Dobson. Even with his illness, his work is incredibly impressive. Not to mention thoroughly enjoyable. Cheers Ian |
Dan LeFay Inner circle Holland 1371 Posts |
That would be so cool. Thanks!!!
"Things need not have happened to be true.
Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths, that will endure when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot." Neil Gaiman |
harris Inner circle Harris Deutsch 8812 Posts |
Magic that happens in the spectators hand & mind is very powerful.
Last summer Jason D. reminded me of the us of an E <. Usually I have used regular coins, but this does allow for a fairly clean approach. Harris Deutsch Laughologist and Nearly Normal Magician
Harris Deutsch aka dr laugh
drlaugh4u@gmail.com music, magic and marvelous toys http://magician.org/member/drlaugh4u |
fib Inner circle 1535 Posts |
Adam,
Terrific website! fib |
Cory Gallupe Inner circle Nova Scotia, Canada 1272 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-10-30 20:18, Jordini wrote: Oh, I see. That other way would be nuts! |
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