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mickey.w Veteran user HK 313 Posts 
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I think Matthew is touching on the fact of leaving an image of the effect. I like this idea a lot.
Just like a recent discussion on how Colour fusion compares over a torn and restored effect.........in CF, the image of the effect can be taken home, while in TnR, what's left is just a folded card....and if this spectator is to hand the card over to someone who hasn't seen the effect and describe the effect to him, either the man will have difficulty in believing in it, or they will look at it in disbelief and think "hmmmm.....really?" in curiosity. In Cf though, the image of the effect stays there. you get the whole image of the effect after seeing the card. And it is much easier to appreciate the effect in case someone else sees the card. more examples would be effects like Martin Lewis' Cardiographic, Ben Harris' Space oddity version 3, etc. Of course, the case about is not 100% relevant to the case here....I don't mean you have to hand the can over to someone else to see it...but to state on the fact that how the magician offers the audience an image of the effect in their mind....which MIGHT give a higher level of appreciation. At least, we can leave that specific image in the minds of spectators. (much easily.) I personally agrees with this idea a lot. Thanks matthew for mentioning. |
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emyers99 Inner circle Columbus, Ohio 4747 Posts
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I like the idea of letting the spectator pour out the soda.
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joeyjojo Regular user uruguay 126 Posts
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Quote:
On 2005-11-15 15:15, Thoughtreader wrote: Oh, how awfully condescending. This is puke-worthy (sounds like someone has been listening to Wonder Wordz too much). Nobody in the magic world is infallible and there is noone who commands the attention of "all seasoned pros" (makes them sound like a salad or something). The silly implication that 'if you disagree then you are obviously not a seasoned pro' works well in the schoolyard but some of us prefer the adult world of pluralism. Even the photographer at the center of this mini-controversy understands this. But it is past your intellectual bedtime so we forgive your lapses. adios, joey |
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sileeni Veteran user UK. 361 Posts
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Its the best impromptu trick I've ever seen. the trick actually does what it says.and letting the spectator pour out the can themselves doubles the effect.
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Werner G. Seitz Inner circle 3131 Posts
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I absolutely agree to let the spec pouring out the BEER (or whatever
 ) into a glass will greatly add to the effect..
"You pour out the beer, *I* drink it...CHEERS  and you keep the can and the coin inside"
Learn a few things well.....this life is not long enough to do everything.....
( Words of wisdom from Albert Goshman ...it paid off for him - it might as well for YOU!!!- My own magic is styled after that motto... )
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Larry Davidson Inner circle Boynton Beach, FL 5270 Posts
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Re. the pliers, I see little value in engaging in a theoretical battle. The proof is in the doing. Try the effect numerous ways and stick with what gets you the best reaction.
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matthew leatherbarrow Loyal user 240 Posts
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Hi Larry,
It is interesting that you write “gets you the best reaction”, the emphasis being on you – the performer. How do you quantify reactions? I am not being condescending, I am genuinely interested. Sometimes I think an effect has not been well received and then I discover that in reality the spectator just expresses themselves in a way different to how I may expect. Conversely some of my ‘WOW’ moments have been readily forgotten. One of the hardest things for magicians to do is understand spectator logic; as we can never truly be spectators. This, I feel, is when theory can be insightful. Trying to understand why magic works for them (the spectator) not us (the magi). Slightly off topic, Matt |
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Thoughtreader Inner circle Calgary, Alberta, Canada 1565 Posts
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Magicsquared,
There is a quality of keeping the coin in the can BUT when it is discussed later by the witnesses and they tell people that after it was all said and done and that the only way they could retrieve the coin was to take out pliers to remove it provides that extra punch to the memory of the effect. The image of having to destry something (break a bottle, rip open a soda can, cut open a tin of soup) to remove the item adds an extra impossibility to it. As to Joey's comments, he can hurl as much rubbish as he wants, and remain his own verbal school yard bully in his own mind. His lashing out is a clear demonstration of his own level of maturity and mindset. PSIncerely Yours, Paul Alberstat |
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matthew leatherbarrow Loyal user 240 Posts
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Thoughtreader,
This is precisely why theorising is important. How much credit are you giving your audience to assume that the image of using pliers will convince them? “and they tell people that after it was all said and done and that the only way they could retrieve the coin was to take out pliers to remove it” Will they tell people this? How do you know they will tell people this? “The image of having to destry something (break a bottle, rip open a soda can, cut open a tin of soup) to remove the item adds an extra impossibility to it.” For who, the magi or the spectator? The magi knows how the effect is done and the spectators knows (or will soon find out) that coins fit into cans. I am asking these questions seriously since you have much more experience than I. Regards, Matt |
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Larry Davidson Inner circle Boynton Beach, FL 5270 Posts
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Quote:
On 2005-11-16 12:38, matthew leatherbarrow wrote: Matt, Don't get me wrong, I love theory, but nothing can substitute for experience. When you perform an effect different ways and MANY times, you can subjectively judge which way gets the best reaction. "Best reaction" FOR ME means applause, laughter, and verbal expressions like "no way," "oh my God," etc. That's my goal. It may not be yours or another magician's. Some magicians, for example, strive for stunned silence. You can also judge how impressed spectators are with an effect by talking to them about it after the effect, which admittedly, isn't always practical. Larry |
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emyers99 Inner circle Columbus, Ohio 4747 Posts
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Agreed.
But this discussion gave me a great idea. I am now going to use a chainsaw to cut open the lemon for my bill in lemon routine. |
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Larry Davidson Inner circle Boynton Beach, FL 5270 Posts
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I understand that Owen Magic Supreme sells a gimmicked chain saw that secretly thrusts the bill into the lemon while cutting it. Be the first on your block to own a $12,000 bill in lemon routine!
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Sean W. Burke Loyal user Washington D.C. 300 Posts
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Larry,
Its actually on preorder right now - seems to be the trend nowadays. I will give a review once it comes in! |
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Larry Davidson Inner circle Boynton Beach, FL 5270 Posts
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Sean,
In line with another trend nowadays, there's no need to wait for it to come in to review it. 
Okay, to get back on topic, who here owns both this product and Rey Ben's bottle cap in bottle, and which of the two would you perform IF the ability to perform impromptu wasn't a consideration? Larry |
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Sean W. Burke Loyal user Washington D.C. 300 Posts
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I own Mike Powers cap in bottle, and have Sinful coming to me via the mail so hopefully I will be able to address the question shortly.
Off the subject again Larry - I see you live in Potomac, I live in Gaithersburg - familiar with Kentlands area? |
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Larry Davidson Inner circle Boynton Beach, FL 5270 Posts
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Sean, I'll PM you.
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12GaugeMM New user 15 Posts
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While destroying the top of the can to remove the quarter adds to the magic and mystery, anyone else in the room with a can is likely to see if it would fit, and then quickly wonder why you are doing what you did.
HOWEVER, It is difficult to get the quarter out of the can anyway, so something as slight as this may greatly impact the effect in a positive way. As said before, just pick one and go with it...try them both... I have been performing an effect extremely similar to this for quite a while now, and although I haven't purchased this, I must say that Houchin's handling seems FAR superior to mine, and I have a feeling I'll end up buying this anyway. Everyone Else is using a signout Phrase, Cameron |
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Nathan Alexander Inner circle 2022 Posts
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Man, I hope I am not inviting trouble with this because the video is in my car as yet unviewed.
However, just thinking for a second, I love the 'tear open the can idea.' But say you do this and you don't have a way to pry the can open/apart (maybe impromptu at a backyard.) It seems like the effect is to try and dissasociate the coin and the opening. Maybe you could steer the specs' thoughts away by letting the trick/moment take hold, then, frowning in consternation, grimace and mutter something about "the last guy was able to bend the top...here let me see...so he got to keep it and get it out.." all mumbled under your breath as if you're just working it out on your own how to get the coin out right then and there. Maybe you are merely trying to repeat what the last guy did who saw the trick so the spectator you have in front of you doesn't have to 'wait' to go home to 'hack it open' as it were. You see what I am saying? A lot of you probably do this naturally anyway. But the idea is to give the impression that they can keep both or what not, but here...you'll just help them (getting the can out of their hands sooner that later) and see if you can just bend back...there that did it...kind of thing. Again, hmmm...I saw the last guy widen the hole (can the inner opening rim even give a little?) a bit... - then you shake/whatever the coin out after a bit of work like the thought never occured to you to take it out the opening unaided. Oh well. My two cents (might be worth less). Sorry. Nathan |
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Magicsquared Inner circle 1262 Posts
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Quote:
On 2005-11-16 12:52, Thoughtreader wrote: I appreciate the blind loyalty to Pete Biro, but this still doesn't answer the question I asked you originally. What would you say to the spectators (who likely have cans and coins on them or within reach) when they ask why you're using pliers or the jaws-of-life or whatever you use to enlarge the opening? I believe your answer to their question would be, "That's the only way to get the coin out of the can." But, in the time it would take someone to compare a coin to the hole in a soda can, it would be obvious you were lying or mistaken. So, this hypothetical situation of them raving about how the only way to get the coin out of the can was to destroy the can, is itself destroyed by the reality which would be them seeing that destroying the can isn't necessary. You don't even need a coin to know that. You can just look at a soda can and see that the opening is big enough. I want to reiterate that I think this is a great effect, I only took issue with the idea of destroying the can under the easily disproved notion that that is the only way to get the coin out. It really doesn't differ much from using a chainsaw to get the bill out of a lemon, or using a crowbar to get the card out of your wallet in card to wallet. |
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Josho Special user Albany, New York 758 Posts
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Rancor aside, and with all respect to Mr. Biro, I have to agree with Magicsquared here.
Minus the part about enlarging the hole to remove the coin, the effect is (no pun intended) airtight. Absolutely impossible. The spectators can examine the coin and can, and ANY coin and ANY can, and find no possible explanation for the effect. As soon as you introduce the notion that a coin doesn't even fit into a can's opening, you are adding a "final image" that's very easily disprovable and, because it IS the final image, very tempting for onlookers to test on their own. "Wow," some will say, "you mean a coin won't even go in and out of this can?" (Moment's examination.) "Oh, yes it will. What was that all about?" This distracts from the simple and elegant effect for which no explanation is possible. Heck, if I'd seen Criss or Wayne perform the effect and use the pliers bit, that's the first thing I would've looked at myself. So you are muddying a clean and impossible effect by introducing an easily disprovable weakness. Agreed with Mr. Biro that many magicians stop thinking too quickly. But magicians also have a tendency to overthink, to run when nobody's chasing them, and to fail to reduce an effect to its simplest and most dramatic form. --Josh |
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Posted: Nov 16, 2005 08:46 am 
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