The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The workshop » » Square Circle Design (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

drwilson
View Profile
Inner circle
Bar Harbor, ME
2191 Posts

Profile of drwilson
I am thinking of building a Square Circle that is wide, rather than tall, with an inner box rather than an inner cylinder. This would be big enough to produce a bunny-sized stuffed animal. The outer box will be a circus wagon with a cage front for the opening, the inner box will be painted as a shipping crate.

Am I going to have difficulty making this work because I have a wide, flat inner box rather than a tall, narrow cylinder? This would only be used with proper lighting, lit from the front at an angle with no light from the top. I have posted a similar message in another forum here:

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......=8&0

I'd like to know whether you think that the BA principle will work OK here, or whether I should consider another method. Thank you in advance for your help.

Yours,

Paul
Michael Baker
View Profile
Eternal Order
Near a river in the Midwest
11164 Posts

Profile of Michael Baker
Get some fabric of your choice for the BA and make a simple mock-up from card board boxes to test the lighting issue. I can't think of a reason why it would not work. Think about illusions such as the Phantom Cage, which use similar principles.

~michael
~michael baker
The Magic Company
Bob Sanders
View Profile
Grammar Supervisor
Magic Valley Ranch, Clanton, Alabama
20504 Posts

Profile of Bob Sanders
I have one that I sometimes use with MisMade Flag. It is red, white and blue! It was commercially produced until sometime in the 70s, I would guess. It was marketed as the Seseme Box. What I don't like about it is that it is far from angle proof. Being short is another disadvantage. You audience must be seated below you or they can see into it.

Bob Sanders
Magic By Sander
Bob Sanders

Magic By Sander / The Amazed Wiz

AmazedWiz@Yahoo.com http://www.magicbysander.com/
George Ledo
View Profile
Magic Café Columnist
SF Bay Area
2859 Posts

Profile of George Ledo
The mock-up idea is excellent for anything like this. With the circus wagon theme (which, IMHO, is a great idea! Smile ), you have a lot of latitude in the design of the opening, the bars, and the surrounding decoration. Some of these wagons have decorative panels that stick above the "real" top of the wagon, which will help with the angles.

Are you going to put it on a wheeled base?
That's our departed buddy Burt, aka The Great Burtini, doing his famous Cups and Mice routine
www.georgefledo.net

Latest column: "Sorry about the photos in my posts here"
drwilson
View Profile
Inner circle
Bar Harbor, ME
2191 Posts

Profile of drwilson
The traditional base with stubby legs will have decorative wheels fitted to it, yes, and the decorative circus-wagon gingerbread will extend above the "real" top of the box in the front.

I already have started with a few nesting cardboard boxes from the craft store (not the right dimensions or proportions) to see how it works, then will progress to a cardboard or foamcore mockup before moving to wood.

I know about the angle problem. This will be performed only when I have good control over the angles. Making it myself means that it can be bigger than the usual "large" ones, so it will really be a stage effect.

Yours,

Paul
hugmagic
View Profile
Inner circle
7346 Posts

Profile of hugmagic
Go for it. It will work . Use brightly polished aluminum bars, star burst wheels, a bright red wagon with gold gild trim. Put a lid on top of the wagon and that will solve the overhead light problem. Think of it as a mini lion's bride illusion. Keep the BA back about 2-3" from the front bars. It can be on a bar across with the loose fabric that just drops down. Look at old time circus wagons for a detail ideas.


Richard
Richard E. Hughes, Hughes Magic Inc., 352 N. Prospect St., Ravenna, OH 44266 (330)296-4023
www.hughesmagic.com
email-hugmagic@raex.com
Write direct as I will be turning off my PM's.
Michael Baker
View Profile
Eternal Order
Near a river in the Midwest
11164 Posts

Profile of Michael Baker
Richard makes a good point here about brightly polished aluminum. I thought about this after my first post, but had to leave for a lecture and no time to edit. One of the keys to the deception that will make the gimmick virtually disappear, even under bright lights is to overpower the critical area with a color that, for lack of a better analogy, snow-blinds the spectator. Polished metal, or even bright white bars and borders draw so much of the eye due to the amount of reflected light that the areas you want to hide will do so almost automatically because of the harsh contrast. I have made very large flash appearances that have been used in convention halls under full light. You are placing something of very high reflectivity directly next to something with almost zero reflectivity. It will work.

Most square circles miss this point entirely in their design and color treatment.

~michael
~michael baker
The Magic Company
drwilson
View Profile
Inner circle
Bar Harbor, ME
2191 Posts

Profile of drwilson
Thanks, guys! Just like the "dazzlers" on a BA stage, I get it. I have some good pictures of circus wagons, so I will take my time and get this right.

Yours,

Paul
haywire
View Profile
Special user
Philadelphia
760 Posts

Profile of haywire
Paul,

After seeing several small commercial ones, I was very impressed with the concept. I wanted to build a huge person sized one but decided it would be too crazy to try and handle that. I would like to build one much the size you described so please keep us informed and let us know how yours goes...

Steven
hugmagic
View Profile
Inner circle
7346 Posts

Profile of hugmagic
Just had a thought. Make the inner tube a bottomless bright (white or aluminum cage). You pick the cage out of the top of the wagon and replace it around the black load chamber. Black tissue paper on the top will keep things hidden until ready to produce it.

Richard
Richard E. Hughes, Hughes Magic Inc., 352 N. Prospect St., Ravenna, OH 44266 (330)296-4023
www.hughesmagic.com
email-hugmagic@raex.com
Write direct as I will be turning off my PM's.
drwilson
View Profile
Inner circle
Bar Harbor, ME
2191 Posts

Profile of drwilson
Richard,

The black tissue paper is a great idea, thanks!

What I had in mind for the inner "tube" is a bottomless box painted to look like a packing crate, white with a wash of yellow ochre over it to look like unfinished pine.

Yours,

Paul
Bob Sanders
View Profile
Grammar Supervisor
Magic Valley Ranch, Clanton, Alabama
20504 Posts

Profile of Bob Sanders
The black to prevent flashing is exactly why the end silk on the DoveLite Line of Silks is black. It is the only black silk in the 16 silks on the ribbon. It is folded over the works until the item is produced.

That is an old magicians' technique about as old as vision. (That's why Richard and I would know!)

A few black silks in your "tool" box will save you a lot of embarrassment at the show. Don't feel badly about just pushing the black silk aside and leaving it behind when you do produce loads from a container. It is still there if you need it. I have black dove harnesses for a real reason. Sometimes an extra bird or three more minutes is needed. Be prepared. Never let them see you sweat!

Bob Sanders
Magic By Sander
Bob Sanders

Magic By Sander / The Amazed Wiz

AmazedWiz@Yahoo.com http://www.magicbysander.com/
Michael Baker
View Profile
Eternal Order
Near a river in the Midwest
11164 Posts

Profile of Michael Baker
Quote:
On 2005-11-17 06:47, drwilson wrote:

What I had in mind for the inner "tube" is a bottomless box painted to look like a packing crate, white with a wash of yellow ochre over it to look like unfinished pine.



Not sure what you plan to make it from, but why not use real wood instead of whatever would require the wash? Aircraft ply can be found in a variety of thicknesses, thin enough to be light weight, thick enough to be sturdy. 1/8" should work well if corner braced with cleats.

It already has a nice color, unless you wanted to "weather" it. Add cleats made of basswood or 1/4" pine craft boards and it should pass the test.

~michael
~michael baker
The Magic Company
drwilson
View Profile
Inner circle
Bar Harbor, ME
2191 Posts

Profile of drwilson
Michael,

Now there's a thought...using wood to imitate wood.

I am still thinking about this, but I thought that since this is a theatrical fantasy, the circus wagon should be a fantasy creation, like a minature stage set or a giant fiberglass theme park facade. Along these lines, I have thought about sculpting the front of the circus wagon in polymer clay over a layer of hardboard. The entire prop would then have a cartoonish look.

The other way to go is to use real wood on the interior crate and carved wood or molding on the circus wagon front, essentially making a realistic scale model of a circus wagon, perhaps even to the point of weathering it a bit to make it look like it's been on the road.

My skills are better suited to the cartoonish fantasy look, but I will work on both concepts in the initial drawings and prototypes.

Thanks for getting my gears turning!

Yours,

Paul
Michael Baker
View Profile
Eternal Order
Near a river in the Midwest
11164 Posts

Profile of Michael Baker
I'd like to see what you end up with... sure to be creative!
~michael baker
The Magic Company
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The workshop » » Square Circle Design (0 Likes)
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2019 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.27 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL