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Themagicquest New user San Diego, Califorina 57 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-11-22 15:38, Shane Wiker wrote: That my friends, is magic. heh, what a butt-head, Gazzo is the man nontheless amazing. |
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paisa23 Inner circle 7293 Posts |
Still no responce from the original poster?
Um I like card magic.(Period) It was my first insight to the art AND a hard thing to stray away from. Do I try to do routines that do not involve cards, Yes I think we all should, and am sure that we all do. But to say that it sucks, I don't believe that or that it has no meaning, I don't believe that either. Most of us should have good presentation to our effects. If not then THAT is what will make YOUR card work suffer and or SUCK.. As far as meaningless I think that is propusterous. I cant spell I know. But if you ever watch Boris Wild do his F.I.S.M. act. You can see how a meaningless effect TO US can be a very emotional and powerful piece of ART....
June 22 2012 9:02 AM baby Usnavi was born!
http://twitter.com/paisa233 http://www.facebook.com/people/Wilder-J-Rua/505202382 http://www.myspace.com/wildrua |
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jecar Veteran user 358 Posts |
All I can say about this topic that 'card magic sucks' is that I saw a televised magic show special, with many different stars performing. All the performers were great and they were also very entertaining, I'm sure. But, I can only remember one act that really stands out in my mind and that act was performed by René Lavant. When one card routine stands in my mind from many other great magic routines, I'd have to say that card magic done well, like René Lavant does it...does not suck.
On the otherhand, my card magic does suck! ;-)) Jerry .. |
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paisa23 Inner circle 7293 Posts |
What effect was that?
June 22 2012 9:02 AM baby Usnavi was born!
http://twitter.com/paisa233 http://www.facebook.com/people/Wilder-J-Rua/505202382 http://www.myspace.com/wildrua |
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Cain Inner circle Los Angeles, CA 1550 Posts |
I like what G.O.B. said: "I don't do "tricks", Michael. Tricks are what ***s do for money... and cocaine. I perform illusions!"
I would like to do away with this "oh-it's-all-about-the-performer" canard once and for all. Bullsh!t. I wonder if the sophisticates who repeat this all too pervasive view are aware of its logical implications: that it is a form of self-flattery at the expense of an effect's creator(s). Suppose I learn a diabolical effect and drastically change the suggested patter to suit my own purposes. According to the "performer-is-everything" crowd, I owe very little to the person(s) who devised the method since, after all, the performance is everything. I'm sorry, but the road runs both ways. If a trick gets a luke-warm reaction it might not have been your fault. Maybe that trick just blows. Sometimes a trick will get a really good reaction in spite of a person screwing up the patter lines very badly (as I know from personal experience). This is exactly why there are so many bad magicians. Virtually all comedians understand that performance and charisma are only one (major, crucial) part of the equation. The other part, of course, is having strong material. And in comedy, moreso than magic, good material is *intrinsically* linked to the performer's personality (so I do not want people getting the mistaken impression that I am suggesting these different facets are easily compartmentalized). If people want to emphasize MAGIC and how important it is to do MAGIC and how MAGIC is what fundamentally makes a MAGICIAN unique, then they should also agree that it doesn't freaking matter how funny, clever and charismatic the best performer is in the world, the 21 card trick isn't MAGICAL. It might be amusing and entertaining in the hands of a supremely gifted performer, but MAGIC it is not. Most people, I think, grasp all of these points on an intuitive level. As with all good sophistry, the "performer-is-everything" nonsense must be learned, internalized, and then mindlessly spouted as a form of closely guarded, esoteric wisdom passed down through the ages to unquestioning initiates.
Ellusionst discussing the Arcane Playing cards: "Michaelangelo took four years to create the Sistine Chapel masterpiece... these took five."
Calvin from Calvin and Hobbes: "You know Einstein got bad grades as a kid? Well, mine are even worse!" |
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Alex Linian Inner circle Peru 1277 Posts |
Here are some meaningless (to me) effects:
-Linking Cards -most torn and restored cards -twisting aces -most sandwich routines -collectors These effects do not make any sense to me at the moment. I might someday find a use for them. They do not fit the vision of magic I have AS OF NOW.
Check out SKYCAP from Paul Harris Presents!- "A fine trick from the dynamic foursome..."
Jared Brandon Kopf, Magic Magazine PUNCTURE 2.0 - "Jaw-dropping amazing... You also get the absolute best teaching DVD I have ever seen" - Genii Magazine SLEIGHT OF HAND that looks like Magic. --- Alex Linian | Instagram |
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Ben Train Inner circle Erdnase never had 4639 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-11-23 21:15, Cain wrote: Thanks you. The argument that skill and effect selection has nothing to do with performance success is perpo... you know what? Forget it. Cain said it beautifully. Im out.
If you're reading this you're my favourite magician.
Check out www.TorontoMagicCompany.com for upcoming shows, and instagram.com/train.ben for god knows what! |
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williamHerrick Regular user Mountain View, CA 140 Posts |
I'll let two laypeople I worked with recently comment on this subject instead of me.
I was telling them that many magicians today seem to prefer sleight of hand to elaborate stage illusions etc., and then added, "You know how everyone likes to see a performance of really excellent card tricks." They both busted out laughing, exclaiming, "Oh sure, that's what we **love** to do -- going to see a show of 'excellent card tricks'! Hahaha!" [Important Note: I'm pretty sure they were referring to other magician's card tricks and not mine:)] I know you'll all say, "But if they saw Bill Malone, etc.," but I believe that most of the public at the current time would agree with Nordatrax that, "The bottom line is most card tricks suck." And aren't laypeople the ultimate judges of this? MagicDan21 wrote: "Theres no bad card trik, just preformances." But if you really believe this then please post a video of your exciting and dramatic version of the "21" card trick! I'd have to agree with the original poster who criticized many/most card tricks for not being visual and direct enough. I think that's why Criss Angel has climaxed most of his shows with something very visual and simple like hanging off of meat hooks, being buried alive, driving a car blindfolded through heavy LA traffic, and not with his killer four ace routine. I love card magic when it is done well, but many times the more elaborate card tricks are like tuning into a TV mystery when it's half over and then trying to figure out what is going on... --William |
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daffydoug Eternal Order Look mom! I've got 14077 Posts |
I was telling them that many magicians today seem to prefer sleight of hand to elaborate stage illusions etc., and then added, "You know how everyone likes to see a performance of really excellent card tricks." They both busted out laughing, exclaiming, "Oh sure, that's what we **love** to do -- going to see a show of 'excellent card tricks'! Hahaha!"
Then these cynics need to be EDUCATED by watching what Ricky jay and Malone, or even McBride do with the pasteboards! Remember, Ricky Jay had an entire show dedicated to nothing but cards, (Ricky Jay and His Fifty Two Assistants) and it was very succesful! Laymen loved it. Perhaps some of them, when they first walked into the auditorium, (reluctantly perhaps?) were not exactly expecting an "exciting" evening, but when they walked out after Ricky's performance, they had become quite educated as to how good card magic can be in the hands of a competant performer, such as Ricky. It's up to US (Since they will not likely get to witness Malone's or Jay's performance) to win them over and change their poor perceptions. That is the challenge, should we accept it. But on another note, I too don't think the Twenty One card Trick has much hope in anybody's hands. That effect is so egregiously bad, and violates so many principles of good magic, that I don't think it is even fair to hold it up as an example or standard by which to contrast other card effects. To me that is like saying you viewed one movie in your life and it happened to be "The Attack Of the Killer Tomatoes!" and then you hold it up as an example of how all movies suck! And because of that, you refuse to go to another movie for the rest of your life! You may not know it, but the rest of us realize that you are missing an abundance of good times because of that single judgement. Now lets compare the "Attack Of The Killer Tomatoes" to "Titanic", or "Jaws", or "Gone With the Wind", or "E.T"., or "Raiders of the Lost Ark", or "Star Wars",....you get the idea. The comparison is grossly unfair, and the other movies should not be judged on that movies deplorable standards. All card tricks do NOT suck! I have dozens in my reportoire, that laymen go ape over! I use these effect to WIN OVER the cynics! Dan Harlan's Card toon is at the top of that list! When I perform that effect, I never hear the end of it as far as them wanting to see it again and again. And I could (if persuaded) name several others.
The difficult must become easy, the easy beautiful and the beautiful magical.
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Steve Friedberg Inner circle 1402 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-11-23 23:46, williamHerrick wrote: Marlo had a marvelous version. Racherbaumer posted it on his website.
Cheers,
Steve "A trick does not fool the eyes, but fools the brain." -- John Mulholland |
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williamHerrick Regular user Mountain View, CA 140 Posts |
I like poetry; that's the art form I enjoy the most. But if I went up to a friend and said, "We have two choices of where we can go tonight: 1) we can either hear a poet declaim a selection of the very best of poetry from the last three thousand years of recorded human history or we can 2) go see a live performance from a halfway decent local jazz band," which do you think my friend would choose to see? The musical performance of course.
Why? Because despite all the beautiful poetry that's been written, poetry has a real bad rap as a boring, pretentious and very tedious art form. This is obviously because people have been exposed to a lot of boring, pretentious and very tedious poetry. No one is born hating card tricks; so if people dislike card tricks, the majority of card tricks they have been exposed to must have been fairly bad. To modify Nordatrax's original statement, "The bottom line is the majority of card tricks [that the average person has seen] suck." |
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Erdnase27 Inner circle 2505 Posts |
I think "" a Dream of Aces" really fries all audiences. I do it on the theme of Cousins "Love theme" like choquet. I think this trick really is a true stunner.
And no.. you cant do a trick like Twisting the aces after huge fireballs appeared from owwhere etc:D I only use tricks with strongest reactions now. a Few of them are: dream of aces, Paradigm shift, Invisible deck routine etc. Btw choquet did dream fo aces in the middle of a huge illusion show and got a standing ovation. that says enough about its potentional doesn't it;) |
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Ben Train Inner circle Erdnase never had 4639 Posts |
No one is saying card tricks suck on the whole (and if they are then theyre not so bright...).
Were saying that MOST card tricks suck. Marlo had a version of the 21 card trick, true. So did Kort, Bannon, Pace, Swain, etc. This doesn't make it a good trick. Using Marlo is a particularly bad example. Marlo wasnt a performer. He didn't care about practacality. He just wanted to explore all areas of card magic, whether the end result was commercial or not. The bottom line is if your just learning card tricks for yourself, and you have no interest in ever performing for people, then this might not be the topic for you. But if you want to share your magic you'll have to weed out the crap. which is most card tricks.
If you're reading this you're my favourite magician.
Check out www.TorontoMagicCompany.com for upcoming shows, and instagram.com/train.ben for god knows what! |
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daffydoug Eternal Order Look mom! I've got 14077 Posts |
Am I correct in assuming that the original poster has vanished? I don't think his choice of topic for the very first post was very propitious!
The difficult must become easy, the easy beautiful and the beautiful magical.
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HGM New user 71 Posts |
Ok look most card tricks are not good but there are some very good tricks out there. And if they seem boring for a maggician to actually preform them then maybe he should not do card magic because most laymen who have watched somone preform a solid ACR routine will go nuts but then again he will go nuts when he seas you float his wife's ring so it is up to you whether or not you preform card magic or not because you think they suck
Oh yeah Attack of the killer tomatoes is the best film ever DUDE!!!! Harv |
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Simon Bakker Special user the Netherlands 587 Posts |
I think a lot of us will agree that most cardTRICKS are considered trash.
CardMagic, on the other hand, deserves a lot of credit. I totally agree with that. But why is it that I see so many excellent performers still use phrases like: " The next TRICK I'm going to show you......" or This TRICK I learned a long time ago", "You're going to do the TRICK yourself now." Is it just me, or am I the only one who considers the word 'Trick' as not very flattering for something so sofisticated as our art? This is my personal opinion, and if this is totally off-topic, please forgive me. Simon |
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Ben Train Inner circle Erdnase never had 4639 Posts |
I don't think hes a fool. And hes hasnt hung aroound for the attention even if that was his goal.
I also don't think magic is an art. It can be. But it can also be a craft.
If you're reading this you're my favourite magician.
Check out www.TorontoMagicCompany.com for upcoming shows, and instagram.com/train.ben for god knows what! |
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daffydoug Eternal Order Look mom! I've got 14077 Posts |
Let's just say it's a crafty art!
Posted: Nov 24, 2005 8:12pm Quote: On 2005-11-24 19:11, Simon Bakker wrote: I think a lot of us will agree that most cardTRICKS are considered trash. CardMagic, on the other hand, deserves a lot of credit. I totally agree with that. But why is it that I see so many excellent performers still use phrases like: " The next TRICK I'm going to show you......" or This TRICK I learned a long time ago", "You're going to do the TRICK yourself now." Is it just me, or am I the only one who considers the word 'Trick' as not very flattering for something so sofisticated as our art? This is my personal opinion, and if this is totally off-topic, please forgive me. Simon Agreed. generally it's a good policy to avoid using the word "trick" if possible.
The difficult must become easy, the easy beautiful and the beautiful magical.
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Ben Train Inner circle Erdnase never had 4639 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-11-24 20:10, daffydoug wrote: Um.... no. Oh, and stop eating all the glue.
If you're reading this you're my favourite magician.
Check out www.TorontoMagicCompany.com for upcoming shows, and instagram.com/train.ben for god knows what! |
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williamHerrick Regular user Mountain View, CA 140 Posts |
Ok, here's an example of a "Card Trick that Sucks" I witnessed/was a victim of at a magic convention as a kid in San Francisco in the 80's.
I was a thirteen year old kid walking around the convention, marvelling at all the magicians around me. I sat down at a table where people were doing card tricks. A twenty something magician asks me to take a card and replace it in the deck. I see him immediately palm it off but I was a polite kid and didn't want to make this guy feel bad. He hands me the deck and tells me to start dealing out cards looking for my card; as I look down I can see him immediately moving his hand towards his head, so I think, "Oh, the famous card on the forehead trick I've read about." I keep dealing the cards with my head down while people all around are laughing. I keep dealing until I think enough time has gone by, then look up to the magican's smirking face with the card stuck to his forehead, and I feign astonishment as everyone laughs at the young sucker. I actually had this kind of thing done to me several times at that convention and other others [I must have that "not a magician" look -- a good thing? ], and I'm sure your wives, girlfriends, boyfriends etc. who have gone to magic conventions can attest to the same thing. I think this is why laypeople have a distaste sometimes for card magic, in particular. Say what you want about the stage magician doing the Zombie or whatever, at least those people are not often sneering at you while during a trick, as I have seen happen during many card "effects". It's like the old Jerry Seinfeld joke: (paraphrase): "Here's a magician -- 'There's a card in my hand, now it's gone, you're an idiot. My hand is empty, now the card is back, you're a fool.'" There are a many great card magic performers; that's why I enjoy card magic and am posting at and reading this forum! I have seen Daryl and others perform card effects at conventions and they are truly wonderful magicians. To be constructive, the problem is people generally don't get to see Daryl or other wonderful and inventive card magic performers on a regular basis. I have often wished that Leno or Letterman or Conan O'Brien (late night TV show hosts here in the US) would each Friday have a five minute segment called "Trick of the Week" where a committee would come up from the audience and all the best performers passing through The Magic Castle or Las Vegas or New York would perform one of their veryb best effects each week. I would truly love to see that, and I think just a one year of showing five minutes of high quality magic each week would undue many *years* of people seeing inferior card magic. Want to help me start a email writing campaign to any of the shows I mentioned? I am serious! I think Start Trek fans got ABC to continue Star Trek for an extra year because of a letter writing campaign... --William PS: Yes, I know this post seems to focus more on bad performers than tricks, but think about it -- it seems difficult to structure a trick like, for example, "The Card on the Forehead" in such a way that the audience member doesn't end up looking like a sucker. PPS: I knew someone was going to bring up the Marlo and other versions of the "21" trick! (How many people actually entertain with these?) Remember that in "Shade" when Jason England starts to entertain the woman with the "21" trick it was a *joke*! |
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