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Dennis Michael Inner circle Southern, NJ 5821 Posts |
Audience Management Techniques
Laughs Per Minute (LPM) for Kid Shows On another thread in the Now that’s funny! A discussion was started related to the importance of gauging our shows using Laughs Per Minute (LPM) A second thread was created related to Comedy Clubs, and a third thread You've got a 5 min cabaret slot - wh......orm? All these threads make for interesting reading in understanding the concept of adding humor to one's Comedy Club adult humor act with slight mention of KID shows. Skip Way, is very knowledgeable on this topic and I have learned from him. In an attempt to get more focused on LPM for Kid shows, this thread was created. He gave me this very informative list:
Skip also Stated, "Record Every Show!!!!" Track your progress & growth, identify strengths and weaknesses and Monitor Your LPM! This got me thinking on improving my KID show and some ways to to do this or at least increase the Laughs Per Minute to existing routines. This thread was created to focus on Laughs Per Minute for your KID show not comedy club or adult comedy material, hence posting in this section. We know that every routine has a Beginning, Middle, and Ending. We introduce the trick and the magic happens at the end. (Most of the time) How FUNNY the routine is can be related to the Laughs Per Minute we get in the MIDDLE section of the routine. I went back to review my notes on ways to get kids to laugh in the middle section of the routine and wanted to share this information with you. For instance the inclusion of a magic wand and props can enhance every routine: Comedy Magic Props Used in Kid's Shows
Assistant Interviews with Kids Whenever a entertainer calls someone up to the stage to help and assist with a trick or an effect, it is extremely important that comfortable relationship between the two is developed. This places the assistant at ease, the entertainer at ease and lets the audience know you are a compassionate person with sincere concern for the assistant. This puts the audience at ease which in turn allows for the humor to flow. Tense people have a difficult time laughing. The audience also relates with the assistant. The entertainer is judged by the way he treats the assistant so he must treat them well. With kids, a lot of additional humor can be introduced into the show by having fun with the assistant. The entertainer should conduct an assistant interview. Some important questions to ask the assistant in the interview are:
From these questions a lot of humorous by-play and bits of business can be done. In addition to asking questions, there can be additional humor in the hand shake and the position the assistant is placed on the stage. For instance What's Your Name? The name of an assistant is important and they are proud of it so mispronouncing it, rhyming it, relating it, or just having fun with it can be funny. Play with the name for about ten to fifteen seconds before moving on to the next question. Examples: Mispronouncing it: Dennis becomes Dentist: So you're a Dentist, I haven't been brushing my teeth and I get a toothache right here. Frankie becomes Frankenstein: Oh that's a scary name. This can lead into Forgetful Frankie effect. Rhyming it: Billy becomes Silly... So how long have you been Silly? Amanda becomes Panda... Pandas... I love those furry little creatures Relating: John...You're Famous...there's a room down the hall named after you. George...Are you King of the Jungle...Mean as can be? Having fun with the name: What does your Mom and Dad call you? Joe...What does your friends call you? Joe...What does your teacher call you? Joe... And what does your dog call you? Joe... You got a dog that talks? I do too! If you ask him the name of the thing on the top of a house he says... Roof? I point to the outside of a tree and he just barks. So Jill is your last name? What is your first name? Jill... So your name is Jill Jill, that's different. I. Magician can Manage the Audience through Laughter While they are laughing they are busy watching what you do for the next laugh. Add as much comedy as you can, but stop short of being a know as a clown rather than a magician. (Does not apply to Clowns.) Successful Routine development hinges on assessing the laughter quotion within the routine. The number of laughs you get per minute determines how well (successful) the routine becomes.
1. Do things that are Physically Funny.
2. Use things that are Visually Funny.
3. Say things that are Verbally Funny
4. Use Music or Audio sounds
II. Use Group Participation by All Kids is an Audience Management technique 1. Have the kids be Physically Interactive
2. Have the kids Visually Notice Something Wrong
3. Have the kids Verbally Interact with the Magic
III. Empowering the Children with Knowledge, Skills, and Abilities 1. Physical Involvement: They beleive they are magical.
2. Visual Interaction: They see something you don't
3. Verbal Interaction: Draw them into the magic or routine
IV. Assistant Participation: Use assistants 1. Physical Interaction: Your Interactions and play routines with the assistant
2. Visual Interaction: have they use a prop which is funny but not embarassing or belittling.
3. Verbal Interaction: You verbally have a funny conversation with the assistant
Add as much of the above to each routine to make the routine funny and enjoyable. As long as each routine is designed to interact with the audience there will be little time for them to do something else, because they will be laughing so hard. With the above information, the KID show entertainer should review each routine and add what he can to increase those Laughs Per Minute. If you are not getting one LPM, you need to rethink that routine to getting that second laugh within that minute. Does the above make sense to you? Dennis
Dennis Michael
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Skip Way Inner circle 3771 Posts |
Keep in mind, that how LPMs relate to your depends on your show's goals and your performance personality. One LPM for a semi-serious kidshow magician may be acceptable while it would be disastrous for a silly kidshow magician like Silly Billy or myself. One LPM may be on target for a flashy, tongue-in-cheek adult show or bar performer but it would be disastrous for a focused comedy club magician. It's all relative to your personal performance goals and venues.
Incredible brainstorming material, Dennis! You've certainly outdone yourself... again!!! This might make a great Breakaway Topic for next year's KIDabra. Bravo! Skip
How you leave others feeling after an Experience with you becomes your Trademark.
Magic Youth Raleigh - RaleighMagicClub.org |
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mjeayres New user UK 94 Posts |
Personally I do not think that Laughs per minute are important for children's shows, what is more important (as Silly Billy points out in his book) is INTERACTIONS per minute. Children do not nescesarily want to be laughing all the way through your show, but want to be involved in your show. Yes humour and laughter is important but not constently through your show. You can tell a story involving magic without it being funny, but as long as the children are involved in some way, answering questions, up on stage, wiggling fingers, saying magic words etc they will still love it. Beleive it or not children these days still enjoy a good story, take the Harry Potter books for example. Not many laughs per minute in those but kids LOVE them. 300 million kids can't be wrong!!
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Dennis Michael Inner circle Southern, NJ 5821 Posts |
Agreed that Story Telling is one style of persona protrayed by an entertainer. Some make a good living just doing that. Barry Mitchell uses story telling quite well and in a very funny way. He also applies a lot of funny props to tell his story.
Skip Way, pointed out that LPM are an average, not totaled per minute. A fifty five minute show of constant laughter will exhaust a child. A mix of comedy and recovery is a right direction to go. A story telling routine is also good and there are many of these on the market. Either way one decides to go, LPM makes a difference in a show, especially for a magic show that does not rely on story telling. Story telling is a whole other topic and a good one at that. I don't think there is a book on this topic for magicians other than what Barry Mitchell has produced. I don't recall a thread in this section on that topic? I personally believe, for a magician, without a sufficient number of LPM, including interactions, his performance would not be all that great for kids.
Dennis Michael
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dmagic Veteran user 384 Posts |
WOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
that's ALL . |
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p.b.jones Inner circle Milford Haven. Pembrokeshire wales U.K. 2642 Posts |
Personally I do not think that Laughs per minute are important for children's shows, what is more important (as Silly Billy points out in his book) is INTERACTIONS per minute.
Hi, Well he should put it into practice then because what I have seen of him at conventions, I personaly would not take advice from him Phillip |
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Smoke & Mirrors Special user 506 Posts |
Wow! Thanks Dennis. My printer is about to get a work out!
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Skip Way Inner circle 3771 Posts |
I have to agree with MJ that LPM is not that important for managing a children's show. However, it still provides a visible medium for tracking your show's impact...which can be important for marketing and auditions for clients.
As I see it tracking your LPM has two primary purposes: 1) To monitor the growth and success of a comedy-format show 2) As a means of quantifying your effect on an audience to a prospective client. A client asks you "So, how do I know you're as funny as you say you are? How do I know that you're worth this $XXXX.00 pricetag?" You respond, "Well, just ask Mr. So-and-so at this number." Client says, "Who's he? Your Brother-in-law?" OR...let's back up. You respond, "Well, this chart tracks my laughs per minute over my last thirty shows. As you can see, over 1/3rd of my show is spent withthe audience laughing and thoroughly enjoying themselves." Sure...he can still challenge your presentation...but it's only one part of a professional, thoroughly thought out sales pitch....right? But what an impact. You have quantified your ability to entertain his audience in a thorough manner. The numbers make an impact! MJ also has a point that laughter isn't the goal of every kidshow entertainer. Absolutely correct...which is why Dennis and I have stated over and over that LPM works IF the goal of your show is high comedy and IF your personality fits the style. If this is not the case, then LPM may be as useless to you as fins on a Porsche! A sidenote to PB...why must we always feel free to insult others and slide into a negative confrontation. There are published magicians out there whom I don't particularly care for...but they are full-time, well-known published professionals. Their views and style may differ greatly from mine. But that doesn't make them worse or me better. While you might disagree with David Kaye's style, you certainly can't argue with Silly Billy's overwhelming popularity and success. Can we all try to be a little more positive or, at least, substantive, in our reviews? :o) Skip Skip
How you leave others feeling after an Experience with you becomes your Trademark.
Magic Youth Raleigh - RaleighMagicClub.org |
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rossmacrae Inner circle Arlington, Virginia 2475 Posts |
Wonderful idea, but (unless I'm missing it) it lacks one factor:
Striving only for max LPM can produce a frantic "one-note" show. To achieve a sort of "golden mean" you might prefer to have your LPM about 2/3 of the way up (maybe even halfway up), with "spikes" of maximum humor to punctuate special moments, and short periods of very low LPM to "give their little laughers a rest" or to try for a moment of seriousness or a spooky moment. Certainly during my show I have at least one period when I'm making a special (blow-up beachball or similar inflate) gift for the birthday kid, when my most appropriate line is "I like to use this time of the show for a little quieting down." Then, of course, there are a few laughs as I do some physical shtick during the quiet blowing-up process. It sets off the preceding 2/3 of the show where I've been going for all the laffs I can get, and the remainder of the show which are also active and funny. |
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Al Angello Eternal Order Collegeville, Pa. USA 11045 Posts |
Two laughs per minute is what I prefer, and I also believe that the words should come out of your mouth like poetry, so the audience can pickup your rhythem, and literally smell the next punch line coming. Of course I would never disagree with either Dennis, or Skip.
Al
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/ "Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone" |
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p.b.jones Inner circle Milford Haven. Pembrokeshire wales U.K. 2642 Posts |
A sidenote to PB...why must we always feel free to insult others and slide into a negative confrontation. There are published magicians out there whom I don't particularly care for...but they are full-time, well-known published professionals. Their views and style may differ greatly from mine. But that doesn't make them worse or me better. While you might disagree with David Kaye's style, you certainly can't argue with Silly Billy's overwhelming popularity and success. Can we all try to be a little more positive or, at least, substantive, in our reviews?
HI, I might just as well say why do you guys feel free only to praise people! its a dicusion forum not a praise em up even if you think there crap forum or is it? I do it because I think that its only fair that some poor kid or new commer who might well have a limited amount of cash does not waste their money (my opinion). if I see some thing or some one overly praised and I do not think they desrve the praise I will put in some balancing views. equaly if I hear someone being slagged off and I think it is unwarranted I will also add my positive views there. As regards his popularity or succes well he certainly has not got a lot over here in the Uk after flopping at several major conventions including blackpool where many magicians walked out Phillip |
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Skip Way Inner circle 3771 Posts |
Ross...again, it's an average. You may have a rowdy, laugh-filled opening with a gut-busting 6 LPM...a calm mid portion with a quiet chuckle every four minutes (.25 LPM)...another gut-busting section at 4 LPM...then a quiet, emotional closing with absolutely no laughs at all. If YOUR target for YOUR show is a mild 1 or 2 LPM and the total laughs average out to that, then your show was on target FOR THIS AUIDENCE.
You shouldn't BUILD your show around your LPM unless your show's emphasis is SOLELY on comedy...then you want to shoot for the highest LPM ratio possible. Otherwise, it's JUST a quantitative method of tracking and monitoring the success of your show in front of various audiences and at differing venues. Why bother? Everyone here can tell me how well last Saturday's shows went. But, can you tell me, in a quantitative manner, how well the shows on Saturday, June 7th, 2003 went? What if you've been asked to return and do a show for the Blackstone Civic Group. You did their show last year about this time. How did they respond? Were there points in your show that played exceptionally well and others that failed? How can you make your show more successful for THIS audience THIS year based on your experience in front of the SAME audience LAST year? Without a method of defining these points, we're simply walking in circles in the darkness and never progressing. Every true professional I know records his shows, keeps notes on high and low points and reviews them frequently for ways to grow. LPM is not a cure-all, solve-all solution for the entertainment impaired. It's a laughter thermometer. You should also have an "Ooh Ahh" thermometer, an "Applause" thermometer, a "Wow!" thermometer, a "That Sucked!" thermometer...whatever YOU use to monitor the success and failure of YOUR shows in YOUR style. Look at it this way: If you walk into a room and it feels a bit chilly, you tweak the heat to raise the temp to one of your liking. If the room feels a bit too warm, you tweak the air conditioning. LPM...and each of the other thermometers...is simply a way of identifying...in a quantifiable, recordable manner...when your show is on target, off center or in desperate need of tweaking with this audience or at that venue. Instead of writing in your show log, "Wow! That FELT like a good show!", you can and should write "3.4 LPM...Great show! Parking Garage Bit - 12 minutes - 4.5 minutes of laughter. Vanishing Rabbit Bit - 6 minutes - 30 seconds of laughter - Great OHH AHH response!" or "2 'Ooh Ahh's per Minute...I was spot on target!" or "Less than .25 'wow's per minute...Card Magic doesn't work with this group." Three years from now if I ask you how your shows on Saturday, December 10, 2005 went...you'll be able to SHOW me. So, you prefer a mild show...I like rowdy and raucus shows. 1 LPM may work for you...I expect more! YOU may like your room at 75F/24C. Your wife may like it at 70F/21C. A thermostat setting that works for you won't neccesarily work for her. The same is true with all of the performance thermometers. You set the "standard" where YOU want YOUR show to be. I hope that clears things up a bit. PB - We can respectfully agree to disagree. I didn't always agree with Benny Hill's style of comedy...but I respect the hell out of his success. Viva democracy. Skip
How you leave others feeling after an Experience with you becomes your Trademark.
Magic Youth Raleigh - RaleighMagicClub.org |
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mjeayres New user UK 94 Posts |
The way I look at a show is to provide a ride for the audience and in order to take them on that ride you need to have up beat moments and down beat moments and the same applies to children. You cannot maintain a good show if everyone has the same emotion throughout the show whether this be all high or all low or even all in the middle. I like to start with a high energy routine, then bring it down with something slower pace and the up again, then down and the finish on a BIG high. It is the same with any good show, whether it is film, theatre, music etc. It must be a ride and not everything "in your face" hyperactivity, bang, bang bang!! for an hour or so. The audience will just feel tired at the end of it. Look at some of the top music acts for example, I will take the rock band Queen as an example ( as they are my favorite)their last tour in 86, each live show started with a real BANG, Freddie Mercury jumping around on stage, high pyrotechnics very loud,then a few songs in a slow ballard type song, then something a bit more up tempo, then something even bigger and louder, then back down with Bohemian Rhapsody then ending with We Will Rock You and We Are The Champions. I am waffling on but I think you get the idea. It is a wave of ups and downs. If you look at the vast majority of the top names in show business, whether it is magic or music the majority of the best productions follow this pattern even David Copperfield & Lance Burton. You need to give the audience a break at somepoint. A time to breath and take in what they are experiencing.
I think things are slightly different in the US to the UK, which maybe why P.B thinks Silly Billy doesn't go down so well over here. The children do adopt a very different attitude towards what is considered entertainment in the UK to the US. And I certainly think that the American children would probably want that high energy a lot longer than the kids in the UK. But to give the most complete show you have to have some slower, less hectic routines carefully placed whithin the show to really make the audience feel they have had a good experience. This is the main reason why I do not think that LPM have any relevance to judging a children's show or any other show, except from maybe a stand up comedian doing a 12 minute set when he has just a short time to impress. But still the same principle applies if you are putting on a variety show with a number different acts. The show has to have a balance. Good topic to discuss!!!!! |
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Mr.Wizard New user 69 Posts |
Well, just a thought...
...but in as much as the terms LPM and Laughs Per Minute were created by me in my Genii column over 20 years ago, lets get the context, ok? It was created for Comedy Clubs, period. Now, LPM's are important for other shows, but the context of getting as many of them as you can, was a context for the comedy club performer. Somewhere around here it is posted, but I have no idea where. I am on the road, but when I get home I can post the orginal column if need be. |
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Skip Way Inner circle 3771 Posts |
The Abacus was invented in 500 AD. The electric lightbulb in 1879. PT Barnum fielded his first circus in 1871. These things still exist, albeit in a somewhat rather different form. Things evolve over time. What may have been developed for the exclusive use of comedians 20 years ago has evolved and found uses in other branches of entertainment. Kinda difficult to limit growth.
Besides...it's been mentioned several times that LPM's primary value is with a focused comedy bit. Seems to me we're basically on the same page...just expanding to new frontiers. Skip
How you leave others feeling after an Experience with you becomes your Trademark.
Magic Youth Raleigh - RaleighMagicClub.org |
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Mr.Wizard New user 69 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-12-08 17:07, Skip Way wrote: Kinda skips over the fact people are using something with neither context or credit. The point is the only reason people came to a comedy club was to laugh. As such, the LPM was the only issue. In truth, and this was in the Neale/Burger book, strong magic gets in the way of LPM's and makes it a problem in a comedy club. Other venues require more than just focus on the LPM's, as has been discussed. I am simply pointing out why I created the term, and the context of why I did, and how to use it. I agree that laughs are important to an over all show, but before we can set the ratio of LPM's we need for said venue. |
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Skip Way Inner circle 3771 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-12-08 19:19, Mr.Wizard wrote: I've seen LPM written up and taught in so many different locations, who knows where the original thought came from. You say it's yours...I accept that as gospel. That said, it's in such common use among the comedy and entertainment world that it's pretty much public domain. I've yet to see the "How To" book for comedians that doesn't touch on LPM. How ya gonna fight that? I'll credit your original thought in future classes and postings on your word...but I would suspect that the concept has grown tremendously since your original column...and will continue to grow and morph. You can't claim ownership over the entire LPM dominion. Quote:
In truth, and this was in the Neale/Burger book, strong magic gets in the way of LPM's and makes it a problem in a comedy club. Again..we agree...and I so stated in several spots. If one is planning on performing magic in a comedy club, the focus should be 70-80% on the comedy and 20-30% on the humor...or you'll never make it past that first couple of minutes. The Amazing Jonathan and Carl Ballantine are excellent examples of this. You CAN successfully perform a killer magic act in a comedy club...but it has to be more comedy than magic. How do you see this as a disagreement? Quote:
Other venues require more than just focus on the LPM's, as has been discussed. I agree that laughs are important to an over all show, but before we can set the ratio of LPM's we need for said venue. Again, we agree. Quote:
I am simply pointing out why I created the term, and the context of why I did, and how to use it. Context can and will change to fill the need of the individual. While LPM is a vital tool for the serious comedian, it has come to serve as a viable tool for a plethora of comedy related specialties besides stand-up. That's my point and I stand by it. Thank you for introducing us to LPM. Skip
How you leave others feeling after an Experience with you becomes your Trademark.
Magic Youth Raleigh - RaleighMagicClub.org |
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Dennis Michael Inner circle Southern, NJ 5821 Posts |
One thing is absolute, humor is not the same for everyone. What may be funny in NYC may not be in Dillwyn, VA, or in another country.
The purpose of this thread was to enhance the middle of a dry routine. We've all seen show were laughter was non-existant and vis versia. In an attempt to quantify what would be a poor performance and an excellent performance is vast dependent on who one asks and the social graces of that area. With kids, most of the time, they love to laugh, love to be involved whether through story telling or comedy. Interactions can be dull, or they can be funny, or they can be just plain stupid and embarrassing. Comedy fits here too. I judge a performance on more than LPM, however, LPM is a method to determine if your performance is worthy. The word, "Mom, that magician was soooo funny...and stupid!" could be good or bad. The real question is how can one enhance a routine using comedy? Well, the long post is one method, to answer that question. Is it a cookie cutter method? I can't answer that. To a story teller, maybe not, to a crowd in the UK maybe not, to NYC kids, maybe not. On the other hand, a combination of interactions in a method that fits one-self, is the best method. There is no real study on what kids like in magicians. We see performances work but fail when we try them, why? It's not for you! I could not be Silly Billy, but I could take one of his routines and make it work for me! It is a delicate balance of comedy, magic, experience, wit, and personality.
Dennis Michael
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Payne Inner circle Seattle 4571 Posts |
Define laugh.
What is a quantitative laugh? Is it a belly busting HA HA HA or a simpering titter of tee hee hee? Do snickers count or just guffaws? Do you get to count the laughs generated on the way home or the next day as people recall your show?
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
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Dennis Michael Inner circle Southern, NJ 5821 Posts |
Skip Way defined it in the comedy section.
Dennis Michael
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