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Smoke & Mirrors
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My first visit to this room of the Café, forgive me if this has been discussed a million times before.

I am looking for anyone to share their ideas of a triumph routine. NOT which method you use to achieve the effect of a chosen card reversed in the deck, just ideas on the "reveal". I use it all the time in close up venues, & next week I have a strolling job for a corporate event and I would like this effect to be a real memorable part of the performance routined into more than just a wham-bam and it's over trick. What are some creative ways to get in and out of this effect?

I have an idea, but have not actually tried it so it is not tested, but I thought of wrapping the deck in a large sheet of flash paper to "secure" it, so that I can't possibly "mess" wit the deck, of course by that point the magic is already done, I just haven't revealed anything. Then I thought of tieing the wrapped deck with a piece of rope (fireproof) and having someone hold it up so that everyone can clearly see the deck. Actually, having others do these parts for me would be better...???

Anyway after more byplay, a lighter is introduced and I tell them how often times famous magicians (ok, theres only one), will use a bright flash of light as misdirection, that being said I will attempt to created a flash of light with the flick of my lighter, at which time I will quickly untie the rope, remove the deck of cards, turn all of the mixed up cards one way except for the secretly chosen card, leaving it trapped in the middle of the deck as the only face up card in the deck, I will then re-tie the rope around the deck and all of this will be undetected by the human eye...(pause for reactions)

A joke or two more, and then I ignite the paper. Yes, I will have to be sure the volunteer is holding the rope safely, and that we are on hard ground, and that they will not let go, likely I will help hold the rope just to be sure...

a flash of light and I will come out of the flash triumphantly spinning once and holding out my arms in victory. I confidently tell them that I have succeeded and allow them to untie and check out the deck.

Well, what are your thoughts and ideas. Again, I haven't tried this and when I do I may find that it sucks or is too dangerous, etc. Feel free to share your ideas.

thanks, aaron
coupcoupdaddy
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No matter what version or handling, I think Triumph stands on its own enough not to warrant pyro which perhaqps would be more appropriate to an effect in need. Good luck and be safe.
foreign correspondent, z and lt



inner being worker
Memory-Jah
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I wouldnt use pyro stuff either. if you want to do a memorable triumpf effect learn david williamsons triumph on his card farm. it is influenced by paul Harris. believe me it is a wonderful triumph which changes at the end of turn the whole deck plus the chossen card into another color. might be interesting in using a black deck for this particular effect, havn't tried it out so far. they won't forget that. and this triumph is done in the hands, so very good for corporate close up.

that's my advice. hope it helps

Jah
"Dropping your pants while you set off flash paper may allow your pass to go undetected, but it's still not invisible." - Count Elmsley
Jaz
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Flash paper of that size sounds scary to me.
If you must, just have all the of the group snap their fingers, say a magic word or something.
As Isso said, "Triumph stands on its own".
Roland78
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I think that it will pass too much time between the spectators seeing the cards reversed in the deck and the final revelation. I love triumph because the reversing of all the cards is immediate and unexplicable: if you wrap them in a paper, then in a rope, then you tell a story about misdirection, then you flash it, untie the rope, and finally you reveal the magic, the effect is in my opinion less strong. Ppl have already forgotten the reversed cards and are concentrating on your story and the rope and the paper, and you lose the magical moment.
I would instead tell a story involving a black mage against a white mage, or a challenge between magicians, depending on the audience you are performing for. It will be more interesting to listen and more magical if the effect is immediate.

Dave
rikbrooks
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I agree with everyone here. Triumph is great just the way it is. It takes me about 2 minutes because I'm joking and talking with the spectator. My only real patter is, "...and now you see that all the cards have turned back over the same direction... except this one, I missed one, oops... could it be?"
Memory-Jah
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Quote:
On 2005-12-13 10:57, Jaz wrote:
Flash paper of that size sounds scary to me.
If you must, just have all the of the group snap their fingers, say a magic word or something.
As Isso said, "Triumph stands on its own".


haha so it does to me, with a little bit luck this anmount of flash paper will vaporize the whole deck except for the chosen card. man this would be a deep impact for the audience and you would have you next gig for sure Smile
"Dropping your pants while you set off flash paper may allow your pass to go undetected, but it's still not invisible." - Count Elmsley
Smoke & Mirrors
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Thanks guys.

I think you mis-understand me though, I was not looking to make Triumph better. As I said in my post, I perform it all the time and I know it's strength and it's ability. Enough said on that subject, you do not have to convince me that it's a good trick.

And my example was just a thought process- not a tested routine and I likely would not perform it after all. Good comments though.

take care,
aaron
scorch
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It's good to see that you're thinking and trying to improve on the classics, but with respect to Triumph it seems that you've chosen one of the few subjects that don't really leave much room for improvement. And as to your suggestions, they seem to be somewhat incongruous to the thematic underpinnings of the triumph plot, and could easily detract from its most important strengths of simplicity and directness.

On the other hand, I love color triumphs, and color changing backs don't have much to do with the triumph plot, either.

The proof of your ideas would lie in your patter and presentation of them. If you can discover a premise that motivates the different aspects of this routine, it could be a strong effect for you. I think a lot of effects are that way, that may have inherent weaknesses in someone's hands, but in somebody else's they come off wonderfully.
Cain
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Often times the magic is augmented by doing something without doing anything. This is particularly true for Triumph.
Ellusionst discussing the Arcane Playing cards: "Michaelangelo took four years to create the Sistine Chapel masterpiece... these took five."

Calvin from Calvin and Hobbes: "You know Einstein got bad grades as a kid? Well, mine are even worse!"
magicbar1
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Sometimes an addition turns out to be a subtraction
Cory Gallupe
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I find the reveal rather bland. So what I do, is do the trick, but don't expose the card. Then I put the deck back in the box, put it on a table or give it to a spectator. do another trick or two. Then say "Remember that card that I mixed up REAL WELL? You know, I shuffled face up and face down?" They say yes. Then I reveal, or get them to spread thru the cards. Then right after that, I do another version, which I have based on the last guys brother. See, the story line I use is that a guy who was heckling me shuffled the cards face up and face down, then with my magicle powers, I fixed it. Then I go on about how I was performing for his brother, not knowing it. He did the same thing, exept he shuffled it with four packets. And didn't even put his card back in. So I say "Well, don't tell me your card, just tell me the suit." They say the suit. I wave my hand over the deck and all the cards in that suit (lets say clubs) are face up. Ace at the beggining, then 2,3,4,5 and so on. with his card missing! It works quite well with me!
Mobius303
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I agree that the fire thing is not an addition or something I would do.
Thatbeing said I reveal the card by riffling the corner of the deck and then spreading them saying that it only took me a second to fix all the cards but one...your selection was ...as I turn it over.
I have three versions of the trick in my hat.
Original
Troy Housier/Larry Jennings in the hands version
Duffy Version
All of them acomplish the same effect to laymen but they are excersizes of different technique for me.
Mobius
Hideo Kato
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As Aaron wrote he was going to work at a corporate event, I think it is good to perform Triumph without having spectator select a card.

You shuffle face up cards and face down cards. When you spread the deck, all cards except one card are face up. You turn the face down card face up. There is a message on it, maybe name of the company or the new product.

Corporate work is not to sell you, but to sell the company.

Hideo Kato
kema
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The clue of the trick is the face up and down condition. The onlookers ask themselves how the magi will straithen out the cards (and find the chosen card in the mess).

I present it as a challenge and ask the spectators what they think how long it takes: 5 minutes, 3 minutes.. One spectator times me (stopwatch). Another one gives the go command. After a split of a second I cry "STOP" and reveal ....

This gives always a very good reaction. I think this presentation is a Juan Tamariz Idea.

Kema
Paul Chosse
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I'd suggest that you take a look at Ron Bauer's "Fair and Sloppy", a theatrically sound way to PRESENT a "Triumph-type" effect. If you are familiar with Rons' work you'll understand why I think his book is worth looking at...

On top of retaining the flavor of the original, Ron has optimized the trick by using the original Sid Lorraine "Slop Shuffle", and adding a Marlo touch for the revelation of the selection. More important than the methodology, the effect(s) are extremely strong. A "fair" selection, and a "normal" looking shuffle, make the "magical" re-arrangement of the cards, and the final revelation of the selection (this is a "bonus" effect from the audience perspective), combine to really lead them "down the garden path", then turn on the hose! I think Bauer has anticipated your "dream presentation" and given you exactly what you want here. Best of all, he does it WITHOUT looking like he is doing anything! No tells...

Best, PSC
"You can't steal a gift..." Dizzy Gillespie
sodman12
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I like the combination of magicmans triumph. the only downside is that it has setup and add about 4-5 min onto the original, but I thought it was a great idea to incorporate the two!
you can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all the time but never all of the people all the time.
scorch
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Whatever you do, don't just "snap your fingers" and make the cards all right again. Snapping the fingers in the "magical moment" of triumph is one of the most cliched, unoriginal, boring ideas for the reveal.

If you do a good color triumph like Williamson's Funner Color Stunner, you just can't go wrong with just doing the effect itself. The color change at the end is sort of an unrelated effect, but with the right patter idea it just kills. Williamson's patter is just perfect. I think if you do a search you can see a demo of it for his Magic Farm DVD.

And as an aside, I think the slop shuffle is like oil and water in that magicians seem to love way more than audiences. I have yet to see a slop shuffle performed by anybody that would fool an observant laymen, and it is anything but a natural appearing shuffle. Far better to use one of the many techniques that look exactly like a normal shuffle of face up into face down, with a good display to prove it.
Matt Malinas
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Build it up. don't rush. keep the specs in suspense until the final moment when you slowly spread everything out and reveal their selection.
triumph is a great trick . whenever I perform it I have to perform "out of sight...out of mind" immediatly afterwards. I just can't help myself

-Matt
The masters make the rules, for the wise men and the fools
cinemagician
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I think he's is considering finding a presentation that makes the reversal and revelation logical. The flash paper is a start in that direction but probably a bit heavy handed. I think the original, "imagine my prediciment when the guy shufled them face-up and face down is over used and although acceptable, is not the greatest or most original way to present the routine.

Furthermore, the effect of the cards "righting themselves" is much more powerful than the revelation of the selection. The one card that remains face up or face down is really an after thought.

First- the cards must be percieved to really be face up and face down, In many presentations of the trick, the method used to "right" the cards, can-- (if handled poorly) instantaneously "prove" that they were not interlaced face up and face down. I agree with him that in the best of all worlds "something" should happed to the deck to indicate that that the change or "righting" has taken place. Simply turning them over and spreading them is not enough. Say if the cards could be laid on the table, and after a few seconds the entire deck "pops" up off the table an inch or so and THEN cards are spread to reveal the new condition.
...The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity...

William Butler Yeats
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