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dan parker New user Germany 51 Posts |
In my opinion there is a difference between cold reading and a system.
If you have a system, you don´t need the parts of cold reading, because the reading is done by the method(eg tarot, playing cards and others) itself. Here you don`t need verbal influence, body language, statistics and other, other things belonging to cold reading. But, as human being; you have the possibility to mix the two together, so what? Nobody says : do only cold reading, trust only a system; do that thing with which you reach your objectives. Hit the target with whatever you want, if you can do this with dice: great! if you do this extremely cold: awesome. Entertain the audience, for layman it is not in the view what you do whether cold reading or a shut eye system. |
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ddyment Inner circle Gibsons, BC, Canada 2499 Posts |
I've compiled a popular list of cold reading resources that you might want to investigate, if you haven't already done so. It also offers some brief commentary about cold reading topics.
The Deceptionary :: Elegant, Literate, Contemporary Mentalism ... and More :: (order "Calculated Thoughts" from Vanishing Inc.)
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Magical Lady Loyal user 275 Posts |
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On 2005-12-14 17:52, trickychris wrote: ------------------------------------------------------------------------ I'm sure you'll enjoy it Chris - let me know how you get on with it! Ian usually has an excellent delivery time, so if you've paid by credit card Im sure you'll have it in plenty of time for Christmas reading! Best ML x |
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rockbrunnen Elite user 431 Posts |
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On 2005-12-14 02:14, magickdabid--uk wrote: Hi, Dave. Would you kindly advise which chapters are for coldreders? I might find that out by myself, but it is too big a book... Thanks! Rock |
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magickdabid--uk Loyal user 245 Posts |
Hi Rock,
take a look at the chapter on "Psychometry" it'll change the way you look at giving a reading...... Dave |
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jimtron Inner circle 2039 Posts |
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On 2005-12-14 22:49, mota wrote: I'm not into attacking or insulting or engaging in combat here. I am interested in learning and asking questions and engaging in a dialogue with people with the same or different viewpoints as me. If you look through my posts you'll see I don't make broad generalizations about people, or ambush them, or insult them, or judge them (if anyone begs to differ--please cite a post of mine that shows otherwise). Why are folks so evasive when it comes to discussing tarot, psychic readings, etc? -Jim |
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J ack Galloway Inner circle 1309 Posts |
Jim,
I have not been. I gave you answers. Also will agree with everything you wrote. Jack H.o.A-X |
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rockbrunnen Elite user 431 Posts |
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On 2005-12-17 16:21, magickdabid--uk wrote: Dave, Super! I will study the capter during this holiday. Thank you very much. Rock |
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Yankeemage New user 4 Posts |
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On 2005-12-14 19:22, jimtron wrote: Far more than you seem willing to recognize. This is the difference between being "A Reader" vs. being a magician using personality profiles as his/her only source of understanding. Some of what's been suggested is fine but, if you really want to learn how to be an effective Reader of people, you must go much further than any of these tomes are going to take you. Too, you need to look at alternate perspectives so that you have a more rounded understanding on the subject vs. teh one-sided ideas our skeptical and critical friends want to insist that everyone adheres to. The First step to becomeing a solid Reader is to find an oracle system you are comfortable with and learn it. More important, USE IT... go out, do Readings and pay attention to what's going on during those sessions with you as well as the client. What Oracle Should You Start With? If you really want to start with the basics my recommendations are as follows; Numerology, Asian Face Reading, Palmistry and Tarot. But, for the sake of simplicity here are the titles to look for; PSYCHOMETRY FROM A-Z; READING THE FUTURE WITH NUMEROLOGY; and AURA READING FOR FUN & PROFIT (all by Richard Webster)... Richard also has a solid book out on Palmistry, you may also want to look into Loren Tendall's new Palmist Tic Sheet systems (it's awesome!)But, in conjunction to this there is a writer known as Ron Martin who has compiled more than a few overlooked tomes on this topic; one on Palmistry and another entitled THE TAROT READER'S NOTEBOOK are the two you want to get familiar with... they reveal REAL LIFE interaction with clients and how this stuff is really used vs. what the wannabes will tell you. Bottom line is, if you want to learn how to be a plumber, you don't ask the local carpenters to teach you, you go to someone that knows that particular craft. Which brings me to one final suggestion... Bob Cassidy has just re-released his Cold Reading book which, in my opinion is a must study compilation for anyone that's gotten caught up in the current trend of Ian Rowlan/James Randi thinking. Bob is a skeptic but he's also a realist and someone that actually works in this trade e.g. he knows what he's talking about vs. writing on ideas, theories and fantasies. Another tremendous resource is Philmone Vanderbek's OORT if you can get your hands on a copy. Best of luck! |
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jimtron Inner circle 2039 Posts |
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On 2005-12-18 19:16, Yankeemage wrote: No, I'm willing to recognize plenty. I have an open mind. Thanks for the response and the suggestions for reading, but I'm still wondering what kind of thing can accurately be read via Tarot. Thanks, Jim |
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Yankeemage New user 4 Posts |
Jim, you have to LEARN THE TAROT to understand that it is far more than mere Cold Reading. I don't know of anyone that's Read the cards steadily for more than a year or two, that's not had some "unusual" revelations... it's like Mark Strivings said in his Home PSI Party videos (and Webster and others have said elswhere) if you give it a chance and actually learn how to Read the divination system itself (forget all the cold reading hype), you will be amazed at how hard you will hit and more.
The Tarot, like most divination systems, is a life time's study even before you begin adding the more mystical elements around it like Pythagrean and Quabalistic theroy, etc. So it's not something that's cut & dry that someone can just say "here it is and this is why"... but knowing skeptic/cynics as I do, they know that and that's why they put forward little questions such as you've done... it creates a cob web of sorts that's designed to trip people up on issues... it's not my job to teach someone (unless they're paying me)... I will however, point them in the direction of those resources that will, if they do the footwork with honest intent, find their answers. If you want to come to New England for the winter and take direct classes, my rates start at $500.00 a day with a $1,000.00 advanced deposit. |
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Tony Iacoviello Eternal Order 13151 Posts |
YankeeMage is right. Learn a system and work with that system.
As a "working" reader, I can tell you that this is the only way to go. Magicians who learn the basics of cold reading can apply this knowledge within the confines of their act, but they will NEVER make it in the world of readers. Over the past 10 years, the agency that I use for my college jobs has hired 10 magicians who said they were readers. Not a one made it to their third job before being terminated. The Barnum effect is useless in this environment. When you do 50 readings in a day for a group like a college, where the kids all compare readings, and overhear 10 or so when they are in line, stock readings, canned lines, and mentioning scars on the left knees will lose you your credibility. Tony |
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jimtron Inner circle 2039 Posts |
Actually, I'm not interested in learning Tarot at this time; I was just wondering what kinds of things can accurately be read via Tarot.
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Tom Jorgenson Inner circle LOOSE ANGLES, CALIFORNIA 4451 Posts |
You've got it backwards. It's not what kind of things can be accurately read....it's How accurate can the reader become using this system. And that answer depends on the reader...
Some systems read characteristics, some trends,others reveal influences and others are divinitory, and some, like the I Ching, are oracular. You will need to study the various systems to determine the ones that appeal to you at the moment. But the question is why do you even want to do this...or do you?
We dance an invisible dance to music they cannot hear.
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jimtron Inner circle 2039 Posts |
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But the question is why do you even want to do this...or do you? As I said in my last post, I'm not interested in learning Tarot at this time. |
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magickdabid--uk Loyal user 245 Posts |
A Reading is a very personel thing, it's kinda like asking a doctor to tell you about his patients, I doubt it would happen..... I have to agree with everything that TonyEye & Yankeemage have said, they do say Jimtron, that expierance is the best teacher, but you are not ready to walk that path yet, some self doubt, or fear of being wrong about your core faith will not allow you to find a way of finding the answers without compromising your princibles, it is a shame, I feel deep down your understanding of Human nature would allow you to give so much hope and comfort to those closest to you, & deep down I think you know this aswell......
Merry Christmas, Dave |
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jimtron Inner circle 2039 Posts |
Hi Dave:
I think you misunderstood my question. You said: Quote:
A Reading is a very personel thing, it's kinda like asking a doctor to tell you about his patients, I doubt it would happen..... I'm not asking readers to tell me about the people they're giving readings to; I'm asking what can be accomplished in a reading. So, using your doctor analogy, my question would be: "what kinds of things can doctors treat or cure?" I'm curious in general about what Tarot can do, not about anyone's personal life. I didn't realize that my question from earlier in this thread: "What kinds of things can accurately be read via Tarot?" was such a difficult one to answer. |
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magickdabid--uk Loyal user 245 Posts |
Hi Jimtron,
sorry to misunderstand the question, I think it's only difficult to answer because no matter how accurate the reader (or the sitter) feels they were, any examples given here are open targets for the sceptics here, siteing how this or that magic "trick" can duplicate, and of course they are right, as magicians & Mentalists they can duplicate much, it would be silly to think otherwise, but that doesn't mean that's acually whats going on, just that with enough thought you can find "the trick" that will keep you within your comfort zone..... As for myself, although I have used the Tarot in the past, I prefer Palm reading, at a reading two nights ago picked up on a problem the person was having with a move from one country to another, setbacks caused by the company he was working for ment a delay of a month before they could complete there business leaving them free to complete the move, my feeling lead me to believe this will happen towards the end of January, and am confident this will confirm a repeat booking. Can you pick it apart find a trick and duplicate the read?, of course, but again that doesn't mean that's how I did it...... before you ask, am I, do I call myself Psychic, only if it gets me the gig. Dave |
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Davro Veteran user UK 319 Posts |
Jimtron,
Can I suggest you go and see a tarot reader yourself and pay for a reading. That should answer all your questions. Best Wishes, David
Best Wishes, David
<BR> <BR>Mid way this way of life we're bound upon, I woke to find myself in a dark wood, where the right road was wholly lost and gone. |
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Yankeemage New user 4 Posts |
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On 2005-12-19 04:22, David Lancaster wrote: Actually, I'd suggest seeing at least three or four Readers from various price ranges... sadly, there are some horridly poor Readers in the world and we don't want the lad judging all of us based on a single experience. Too, like anyone, Reader's have their bad days... I know if you came to me in the latter part of the day during a busy psychic fair, you're going to find me a bit crisp and burnt... my mind is a bit fried and so the Reading may not feel as fresh and spontaneous... this is one of the reasons Herb Dewey & Co. put out the books RED HOT COLD READINGS and if I recall correctly PSYCHO-BABBLE. These aren't materials intended for ripping the public off, but rather patter lines that can be used by a learned Reader for filling in "the blanks" so to speak, during those points of burn out or, in those instances that someone recognizes you on the street and imposes on you for a short Reading. |
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