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Magicpitch
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I undertstand your point Mario. You were VERY fortunate that you were able to be around some great teachers. However, as you know, the USA is a large place. Most people in magic are far outside the reach of having a great teacher within driving distance. How's one supposed to learn? Let's take someone who's been into magic for 5 years and is 25 years old, living in North Dakota somewhere (I hear rumors people do actually live there). How's that person supposed to learn about street performing?

How many people do color monte with the out of the box patter? How many people do Twisting the Aces the EXACT same way Vernon did? I've met many who use the patter from their teaching sources, whether it's a book or a video, but I've yet to meet anyway who's grown a mustache to look like Ammar Smile

The part of a street performer has often lead to the character of a street hustler. If you look, Gazzo, Whit, Chef, and a 100 other people dress in that same character. To me, that shows nothing more than people trying to look the part of an old time street con artist type character. Certainly if you go to a Ren faire, you'll find a lot of people all dressed alike as well, since they are all playing roles from the same time period.

I just believe that the thought that everyone is copying everyone else is more or a ego trip that real facts. If so, then there are 100 people dressing with bowler hats, vests, white shirts, and an arm band, and all of them are working professionals, not amateurs trying to learn street performing.

I think it's a great thing to teach someone and help them develop their own character and it's great that you take the time to do that with people you teach. However, most people don't have teachers, they learn from books and videos bought over the internet. Until they master the lines, the timing associated with the moves and the lines, it's hard to have the technical knowledge to create and make it your own.

And what qualifies making it your own? Same routine, different lines? Same lines, modified routine? Modified routine, different lines? It's taken those who release material 20 plus years of fine tuning to get their routine to that point, so why should we expect someone who bought a Cellini video 6 weeks ago to be able to create and make it their own in 6 weeks time? It can take years, even decades to make something unique to you, don't you think?
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Dave V
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Quote:
On 2005-12-19 14:38, Magicpitch wrote:
I just believe that the thought that everyone is copying everyone else is more or a ego trip that real facts. If so, then there are 100 people dressing with bowler hats, vests, white shirts, and an arm band, and all of them are working professionals, not amateurs trying to learn street performing.


Thanks Steve, you just proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that I am NOT a clone! I dress in a Bowler, vest, BLACK SHIRT, and an arm band. See? I'm nothing like those other clones! Smile

Besides, if I were a real Gazzo clone, I'd have to perform standing in a hole. Smile

I have one advantage he doesn't though. At least I know the weather before he does.
No trees were killed in the making of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
Mario Morris
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Quote:
On 2005-12-19 13:32, BAH1313 wrote:
Maybe it's time some of us step down off the soap box for a while.


Bah1313
Ok so that is the way it is going to be.
I think you have missed my point, close but know cigar as you guys tend to say.

Yes I do C&B in part way Gazzo taught me but to say I say act like Gazzo is an INSULT to him and my self. Even Gazzo said I performed like a Mad Market Trader, and that was established well before I meat or even heard of him.

Maybe you have no back bone to your own character that you have not developed over the years. Maybe you are Carbon copy of some one else work if that is the case then yes I would agree with you step down off the soap box for a while.

Does Gazzo use Dippy Duck; maybe he balances a tray on top of a ten foot pool with Rocky on top while playing amazing grace on a kazoo. No I don’t think so.

I was invited to the British Street Performers Competition 2005. All that sore it committed how I took the Gazzo routeen and made it mine. I performed as the Medicine Man with Dippy Duck and C&B. Garry Animal said that it was good that I made it mine, Simon Jackson even thoe he took the pee out of my Duck said it was mine. I phoned Gazzo on many occasions to get advice as I made it mine. There is a lot of History on hear me doing research as I worked on that Character.

I am not arguing for originality but I could, I am simply wanted to encourage creative performers.

I am rapidly beginning to get angry with being misunderstood hear. Have I not been plain enough? This seems to be destined to go of target this is not weather you do C&B all not this is about entertaining.

I have put my head on a block not stood up on a soap box.

Maybe your right I should just shut up write it in a book and sell it to you.

If you cant say thank you for good honest advice when it is given, then good luck to you.

Mario
Mario Morris
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Thanks Steve
That is a fair point and you have calmed me down.
Mario
BAH1313
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Mario, didn't intend to insult or cause you anger. I was trying to make the point that if you are doing a Gazzo Like routine and seemed to have made it your own, then what's wrong with another trying the same? By the way, I've seen your C&B routine, and it's very good. (I have not seen the Dippy Duck or the Kazzoo bits.)
I will say this. Do not question my back bone as a performer or as an individual. I was only questioning your input. I, in no way questioned your "back-bone" nor Character. It seems that you are very good at raising questions, but when it comes time that someone askes a valid question or even posts a valid point to contradict you, you get very defensive. I am not attempting to rile you up here, but come on. Who else is always asking the "real" buskers to come forward or issuing some sort of BS challenge trying to get people to "prove" their worth in the Busking community? I see plainly what you are saying when you write, in fact most of it seems to be focussed on the fact you do this for a living and nobody else does, or shouldnt be included here because of that fact. Give me a break Mario. Everyone starts somewhere. More and more you sound like one of those pompus fools in the clubs. I read and enjoy this forum very much, but lately, you my friend are getting a little prejudicial about who posts and who doesn't. Most of these guys are just starting out. Why cut on them? Sure some may give poor advice, but as you ahve said in a lot of posts, you just have to go out and do it. Who cares what they've written, or read? If the only way to learn is go out and do it, then what others say, do,or write shouldnt make any difference. Should it?
reminds me of an old saying... There's no such thing as free advice. Someone always ends up paying for it.
I am truly blessed to have a job where people are laughing all the time and everyone believes in magic....Come to think of it, I'm blessed to even have a job.
BAH1313
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Mario, let me add any appologies for what I said in previous post. I admit that I wrote most out of anger. I respect your outlook, and I respect your opinion.
I think overall, everyone is on the right track, and the good ones keep going. The bad ones find other things to do with their time. Hey, there's always juggling.
I am truly blessed to have a job where people are laughing all the time and everyone believes in magic....Come to think of it, I'm blessed to even have a job.
Mario Morris
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How can you apologize and contradict your self in the same statement.

As soon as you start talking about soap boxes you have taking the gloves off as far as I am concerned. As far as backbone and Character I am referring to performing only.

As far as my recent my last two threads you’re referring too I suggest you try to understand what I am saying because you don’t appear to have got it at all.

I am amazed how many PM I have received from different performers. That have different angles experiences on what I am saying but agree with what I am proposing. Where the hell are you, why don’t you say what you think? As I said in my last thread this is my Ditch attempted to get to know the Buskers on hear.

I pour out my heart and get called a pompus fool. I try my best to help newcomers and I am accused of cutting in on them. Just show me one post any where I say to anyone don’t post hear if you’re not a busker, my intention is quite the opposite. You’re just missing or twisting what I say. As it goes you sound like my Mother. All this coming from the safety of having no name, face or website. I assume you go to a magic club if so which one?
Mario

PS If there is one thing that I am pompus about is my hate for being PC for the sake of being PC. So don't appolergise if you beleave in your statment stand by what you beleave, or don't say anything. If your going to pee on a bed be it your own.
BAH1313
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Mario, Many times I tend to take things out of context. Call it what you will, but I'm not contradicting myself. I did not say you were a pompus fool. I only said that you were starting to sound like the ones at the magic clubs. Which, by the way I am NOT a member of for this very reason. I did not intend to twist what you said. Only reply to it. Mario, I respect what you say, and you are a hell of a performer, but come on, I would think that after being a street performer/busker for so long you would have thicker skin by now. Should I soften my approach?
I may not have my picture plastered up, my name up, or my website posted, but what would that matter any way? I was just trying to communicate with people in the same business as me. Besides, who here would care about my website? Just another form of self promotion. Tooting our own horns?
Whether or not you know who I am makes no difference to me. It's not you(or any other busker) that's paying my bills.
I tried to apologize after posting and then reading what I said, and I meant it. Come on Mario, lets be pals... chums... I don't wanna fight, I wants ta be friends.

My Name is Robert my phone number is (859) 912-1448 I live outside of Cincinnati, Ohio. No website yet. Too many kids to feed.
I am truly blessed to have a job where people are laughing all the time and everyone believes in magic....Come to think of it, I'm blessed to even have a job.
BAH1313
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Pee in a bed? I do stand by what I said. I didn't mean for it to come off so harsh is all. That's not being PC. That's admitting I made a mistake. I guess what I'm saying is Clones are cool. I wish there was more clones, except without all the make up, or the big shoes, or the funny noses.
Hey are we talking about the same thing?
I am truly blessed to have a job where people are laughing all the time and everyone believes in magic....Come to think of it, I'm blessed to even have a job.
Mario Morris
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Happy Christmas
BAH1313
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That was a joke Mario. I was referring to Clowns. Just playing with the word clones is all. And NO clones are not cool. I think it's just very popular thing to be doing right now. Believe me I have seen dozens of guys come and go near my pitch. They don't last because they have the personality or toughness for it. The funny thing is, everyone of 'em owns a s&^%ton of videos about busking, or seen us do it, and thought "hey that looks easy" they try, and fail and quit.
The only thing that really hurts us is when they give up the magic by exposing the tricks through malpractice. This can hurt a little, but in the long run, the crowds still like who they like.
I am truly blessed to have a job where people are laughing all the time and everyone believes in magic....Come to think of it, I'm blessed to even have a job.
Mario Morris
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To all: a poem.
I have a problem it is called this place, it is a growing addiction, I think I need my head examined to stay, Another evening spent playing with my self, the result brain less umm noise, That’s me I am bailing out I may pop in and pee on your beds from time to time, The horizon is fake and I have hit the wall,
Can I resist a fix of calling out my name, Mario we really do care, like hell you do, My monitor has trap doors mirrors and little folk sinning “we can fix it, we can fix it”, When all the time it was never really their
Should I stay or should I go, Oh no their is some one knocking on my door.
That all from me good morning good evening and good night.

On the over hand I have four fingers and a thumb.
Mario
PS Don't worry I am just having a flash back, Smile
Mario Morris
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PPS
I have had a few more thoughts on this thread and my flash backs are over. I can’t help but think it has been crossed wired with Gazzo move to Penguin (sorry Gazzo not my intention). As I have said this is his Business full stop. I do and have recommended buying books. Or I was suggesting is to try it yourself first. I believe that you will learn important lessons if you do, lesson you will never learn if you don’t. If you dress up like a con man great but what ever you do be your self. Please don’t send me any more pm's on this subject in particular ones that involve back stabbing, it is doing my head in and it is not my business. If you got something to say, say it on hear. Don’t say one thing in private and opposite in public that is two faced for me. Robert if your wondering if this is about you no it is not, thank you for your PM. Maybe it explains why a barked so loudly.
Mario
PPPS Dave I think you look great
Sir T
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Gee, I thought your post was really well thought out mario! I also thought it gave some food for thought, such deep questions as, "To clone or not to clone?" Will I be better off or worse off? If I am going to clone, who to clone and why? do clones last longer or not than some one who knows how to adapt an act? Am I better off to clone? Or better to create on my own? Wow, I liked the post, not sure why all the hurt feelings?
BAH1313
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Mario,

I wouldnt have thought it about me. I understand the angst, and the feeling somewhat betrayed by the general masses getting ahold of all the great information that is prvided by Gazzo. But, in a funny way it just encourages the rest of us to become more original, and leave the "wannabes" behind. If they are all doing the "clone" thing, then we must by matter of pride and professionalism move on to our own plains of existance. You never know, it could be your act that everyone wants to copy in the future.

Peace.
I am truly blessed to have a job where people are laughing all the time and everyone believes in magic....Come to think of it, I'm blessed to even have a job.
Mario Morris
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To Totaly ccontridict my self, but who gives a crap.

Two books I would recomend a to newcomer.
"The Secret Art of Magic" by Eric Evans & Nowlin Craver
And
"The Art Of Krowd Keeping" By Gazzo



I always sell products at my workshops. If someone has knowledge of magic but is new to busking (which is always the case) I will tell them to have a go first with what they got already and save a bit of money. Beleave me that goes right against the grain of a Pitchman all Dealer. This is an old argument in sorts I have had with Mark Lewis. I cant sell products to folk if I don't beleave in and I can still make a good Grafter. Fundational theory stuff like the ones I have mentioned I think can be very good.

Mario
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