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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The Gambling Spot » » What is a card shark? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Jonas
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http://www.youtube.com/jonashaglund < Card flourishes and some other stuff.
Chris Stolz
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Alright that's it...

Harwin you are my HERO!

I'll be laughing about that one for weeks....can I use it in my show? "Ladies and gentleman...I am now going to show you exactly what a card shark looks like..."
Jonas
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Go ahead =D
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wol
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I thought it was Jaws with a full house! I'm lughing here guys! Is this thing on!
Keep passing the open windows!
bishthemagish
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Harwin

That picture is a riot...
Glenn Bishop Cardician

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Memory-Jah
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Quote:
On 2005-12-21 02:23, mattisdx wrote:
Brian Tudor Smile


lol, no comment about it.

in my opinion a c. shark is a person who is highly skilled in cheating. doesn't matter what he uses his skills for....

for me richard turner is the super killer white card shark Smile
his skills are unbelieveable.....


Jah
"Dropping your pants while you set off flash paper may allow your pass to go undetected, but it's still not invisible." - Count Elmsley
Mark Ennis
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There is a term that pool players call "sharking". Sharking is behavior used by hustlers to cause their opponents to lose focus or confidence, such as making conversation while they are shooting or walking in their line of sight while the opponent is trying to shoot the ball.
ME
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I was just browsing the forums and I just saw this cons and swindles section. Wow, I can't believe it. I will definitely visit this section often.
Anyway, Glenn, your question is a very good one. A cardshark simply refers to a person who cheats at card games (mainly for the money, there's no point of cheating if there's no money involved). Now there are those who do cardhark demonstrations such as I do and you do Glenn, these people are simply magicians who do gambling and cheating related material. That's the stuff I mostly do. I don't like cheating at actual card games. I feel it's not fair for the other players. Advantage play is very common, and the population of cardshark is growing. However, I do feel that exposing the techniques is wrong. You can offer to do a cheating demonstration, or a gambling demonstration rather, but don't tell your audience what you actually did. If you demonstrate false deals, don't let them know you did false deals. Just do the demonstration, and let them be amazed. Actually telling your audience what you did is wrong in my opinion, because you've worked so hard to make your deals look good and just by telling them, you've ruined all your hard work.
So there you have it. Glenn, I'm glad you bring up these questions. So much can be learned just by reading other people's comments and opinions (especially yours).
All the best,

Michael
bishthemagish
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Thanks for posting gang it has been interesting reading the posts.

As far as I know a pool shark is a person that plays pool well and can hustle and play under speed when they play pool. That is to play just above the person that they are playing with to keep them in the game to win more money. This is a skill and they have to play well to do it. This might be called a pool shark.

That is not what a card cheat is or an advantage player. Because this person will used moves and things like second dealing, bottom dealing, culls, stacking, the spread and use moves and things to take advantage of the card game. This is cheating. And this is what I call a card sharp.

Being able to play pool well is not cheating it is the ability to play well with years of practice. Unless something is added to the game to gain the advantage besides the ability to play well I do not consider it cheating.

A Magician that uses card moves of a cheat and uses it to entertain is what I call a card shark. Not a card sharp. Magicians like Erdnase, Dai Vernon, Charlie Miller, Billy Bishop, John Scarne, Jack Pyle, Myself all card sharks. We can do the moves but we do not cheat with them. I would put Darwin Ortiz into this group as well as Marlo and many others.

Walter Scott, Carl Jackson they could be called card sharps.

Just some thoughts...
Glenn Bishop Cardician

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Jim Morton
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The original term is cardsharp--one word. It means someone who cheats at cards. The term card shark (two words) came later and comes from the use of shark as someone who is less than honest or who takes advantage of people(like a loan shark). Both terms refer to cheaters. A magician is never a cardsharp, or card shark, they are only pretending (unless they are engaging in cheating outside of their magic act). Any other definitions are the constructs of the people on this bulletin board.

Jim
card cheat
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Cardshark : A card player who, while able to cheat via sleight of hand or any arbitrary means, is capable of winning most of the time by legitimate and honest methods. In other words, a good player who only cheats when he/she "has" to.

Cardsharp : A card player who looks to cheat in every card game he/she plays, and not always as good a square player as a Cardshark.
bishthemagish
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After reading all the posts and much thinking this is what I have come up with as to what a card shark is - that works for me!

A Gambler is a parson that gambles in a game of chance.

A card sharp or a card shark is a person that can do card sharp/shark moves well. This includes magicians like Jack Pyle, John Scarne, Jimmy Cards Molinari, Steve Draun, Darwin Ortiz, Ed Marlo, Dai Vernon, Me and others in magic that use a deck of cards in the ways that we magicians do. And people like Doc who in this forum use cards to earn a living another way.

A Card Cheat is a person that cheats in a game of cards, or a person that uses skill or technology to cheat in a card game.

An advantage player is a person that takes advantage of any situation that happens in a game of chance and uses it toward his or her advantage.

Just some thoughts.
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Mark Ennis
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Quote:
On 2006-01-26 14:17, bishthemagish wrote:
Thanks for posting gang it has been interesting reading the posts.

As far as I know a pool shark is a person that plays pool well and can hustle and play under speed when they play pool. That is to play just above the person that they are playing with to keep them in the game to win more money. This is a skill and they have to play well to do it. This might be called a pool shark.

That is not what a card cheat is or an advantage player. Because this person will used moves and things like second dealing, bottom dealing, culls, stacking, the spread and use moves and things to take advantage of the card game. This is cheating. And this is what I call a card sharp.

Being able to play pool well is not cheating it is the ability to play well with years of practice. Unless something is added to the game to gain the advantage besides the ability to play well I do not consider it cheating.

A Magician that uses card moves of a cheat and uses it to entertain is what I call a card shark. Not a card sharp. Magicians like Erdnase, Dai Vernon, Charlie Miller, Billy Bishop, John Scarne, Jack Pyle, Myself all card sharks. We can do the moves but we do not cheat with them. I would put Darwin Ortiz into this group as well as Marlo and many others.

Walter Scott, Carl Jackson they could be called card sharps.

Just some thoughts...


Hello Bish,

There is a term in pool (and other games) called "sandbagging" where a player will not play to the best of his ability but will play just under the ability of his opponent. After dropping a couple of games of 9-Ball to his opponent, the sandbagger may coax the opponent into another game or series of games and will ask for a handicap (ie - getting the 8 ball to win). If he is successful, he will most likely clean out his opponent to the tune of about three or four times what he had initially lost.

Do you consider this cheating or fair play?
ME
bishthemagish
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Is this playing under speed to win more money? And that depends on what you consider - not what I consider as to what is cheating or fair play.

But doesn't this also happen in other sports games as well?
Glenn Bishop Cardician

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Mark Ennis
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On 2006-02-01 13:05, bishthemagish wrote:
Is this playing under speed to win more money? And that depends on what you consider - not what I consider as to what is cheating or fair play.

But doesn't this also happen in other sports games as well?


It does happen in other sports (assuming pool, bowling and darts are sports. If so, I guess I am a triathlete). In league play, not only is sandbagging frowned upon, the punishment can be severe (in regards to be punished by a league) - which can result in forfeiting all of the games your team won. In regards to gambling, I think it is a legitimate hustle and a wonderful psychological ploy to get more money. Some people consider it cheating since you are not playing to the best of your ability (perhaps the rules were generated by people that got suckered at one time from a sandbagger).

Bish, I was curious as to how you would view it - regardless of what the league protocol stance may be.
ME
bishthemagish
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On 2006-02-08 11:56, Mark Ennis wrote:
Bish, I was curious as to how you would view it - regardless of what the league protocol stance may be.

I would view it as advantage play. And using ones ability to play with an advantage over another player. Some people view advantage play as cheating and when done it is most often frowned upon.
Glenn Bishop Cardician

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Jim Morton
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On 2006-01-29 04:04, card cheat wrote:
Cardshark : A card player who, while able to cheat via sleight of hand or any arbitrary means, is capable of winning most of the time by legitimate and honest methods. In other words, a good player who only cheats when he/she "has" to.

Cardsharp : A card player who looks to cheat in every card game he/she plays, and not always as good a square player as a Cardshark.


This reminds me of Humpty Dumpty in Through the Looking Glass: "When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean--neither more nor less."

You won't find the above listed definitions in any dictionary. Cardsharp (one word) and Card Shark (two words) mean the same thing. They are both cheaters. As I stated previously, any attempt to separate the words into meanings is the work of the person posting not the real world.

Jim
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No a card shark is just a good player. or at least that's what most people call them(card pros) hence the name sharks and fishes
you can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all the time but never all of the people all the time.
card cheat
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On 2006-02-09 14:35, Jim Morton wrote:
"it means just what I choose it to mean--neither more nor less."

Exactly: it means what I say it does, neither more nor less. This thread was started with a question posed to MEMBERS; not any dictionary. I think that if the originator of this thread was looking for what it said in a dictionary, it would have been there that he searched. Why don't you relax? I was asked a question and I answered it: with MY answer, not yours.

Quote:
On 2006-02-09 14:35, Jim Morton wrote:
You won't find the above listed definitions in any dictionary.

Actually, you're absolutley correct. I didn't look in a dictionary for them. Very impressive work there....

Quote:
On 2006-02-09 14:35, Jim Morton wrote:
Cardsharp (one word) and Card Shark (two words) mean the same thing.

Oh, really? I don't think so. Actually, in my dictionary, the American Heritage, "Card Shark" (two words) is not listed. "Shark", on the other hand, is listed and defined as "a greedy OR dishonest person." Keyword, "OR", should I look that up for you too? Say, what is YOUR dictionary called? I would be interested to know.

I will admit that the word, "Shark" as used in this context does have a tendency to bear this type connotation (cheat.) However, I think that even honest card players are a little greedy, no? They want your money, and that's that. Perhaps we should define greedy, Mr. Webster? Popular belief is not always congruent with fact.

Especially in comparison to "Cardsharp" (first written "scearp" in it's original Old English spelling), defined as "an expert in the art of cheating at cards", "Card Shark" can certainly mean something slightly different, right? I said that a "Card Shark" is a player who is aware of, and proficient in, the ways of cheating others but, is an expert at square play as well, so he/she might not always cheat. In other words, he/she is at times (most always) greedy and at times dishonest. Hmmm, what's so askew about this?

On 2006-02-09 14:35, Jim Morton wrote:
They are both cheaters.[/quote]
Quote:
Right. At times the Card Shark will cheat, and the Cardsharp is a cheat by trade. You're catching on rather quickly.

On 2006-02-09 14:35, Jim Morton wrote:
As I stated previously, any attempt to separate the words into meanings is the work of the person posting not the real world.

Was a dictionary not written by a human being, like me, from the "real world" or was it bestowed upon us from on high? Was it "magic?" My point is that human beings wrote the dictionary. I don't know know what you mean by "real world" but, if you mean what I think you do, then HUMAN BEINGS are certainly an element of that, therefore I am also of the real world, therefore my definitions are of the real world, too.

Speaking of magic... You are a magician, right? Right. Well, I am a card cheat. Perhaps you should yield where you are less informed than someone who has devoted his life to the study of every facet of this subject. After all, I don't tell you how to define, "expose artist", do I?

At last, all I ask is that you pose not as an authority on matters which you (very clearly) are not. If any of my requests may hereby be so generously granted by you, Sir, please don't step on my toes, as I did not first tread on yours. Learn to think outside of the box, my friend.

Alright, let's hear it. Start typing.... Let's go, let's have a fit....

Card Cheat
Jim Morton
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Say, what is YOUR dictionary called? I would be interested to know.


My main sources are the Oxford English Dictionary and Merrriam Webster Unabrdiged, Second and Third edtions. I am writer by trade, so, believe me, I have spent more time investigating this subject than you might imagine. What I said earlier still stands.

Jim
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