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blpprt
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Greetings All,
I need some suggestions what to do in a particular situation.

I've done a common impromptu one-ahead mentalism effect with great success for a few months but last night I ran into a situation that stumped me!
If you know this principle, you'll know what I'm talking about with the following:

I asked a person to think of someone they had spent time with the day before and then after "reading her thought" I wrote the value of a card I would later force on the 1st slip of paper, balled it up, set it on the table and told her, "here is my commitment of the person you are thinking of." I then casually asked her, almost like an afterthought, to tell me who she was thinking of so I could see if I had even gotten close...if I'm having any luck with this sort of "experiment". She refused! She said that if she told me the name, I would write it on the next slip of paper!

I was stunned! I'm quite sure she had never seen this trick before...much less knew beforehand how it works. Usually they say, "If you are a mentalist, then I shouldn't have to tell you the name."...but what blew me away is telling me I would write it on the next slip of paper!

What would any of you have done? Is this one of those cases where we simply have to "punt" and move on to something else?

In Mark Wilson' Cyclopedia of Magic, he does the same thing where someone holds a random handfull of pocket change and then, after the mentalist "writes how much is in the hand" (wink wink), it is counted immediately after. In this case, I could see the girl saying, "We'll count it after you make all your written predictions."

She wasn't trying to be mean. I think she simply had the mental capacity to see through what I was doing.

Any ideas? Has this happened to any of you? What would have been your "out"?
Many thanks!
Bob L.
icentertainment
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I have seen it work as a running gag--- you write a prediction and ask- name any card- they name it and then you scrunch up the paper and say something funny like
"yes that was it"

later in the show you do the same.

at the end you pick up the peices allowing time misdirection and you'll get better results

I think from the sounds of things you put to much emphasis on writing down the predictions which drew attention to it.

The effect is you are reading minds or you are predicting the future

YTou'll want to take less focus off the props and work on your presentation.

Impromptu doesn't mean unrehersed and un planned and un practiced and... well you get the point.

Also don't hold 3 pieces of paper- as this gets people trying to figure out what the 3 pieces are for.
use a pad and tear off the sheets as you go.

You may also want to use square pads so you can combine it with a centre tear just to mix it up.
mike89
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Yes of course it has happened to me. Some people just have a logical way of thinking and possess the mental capacity you mentioned. I wouldn't blame your performance.Personally, I stay away from this variation. If I do use the "One-Ahead" principle it's with a Q&A routine.
However in conjunction with the routine you mentioned I will offer my own personal subtlety. Don't ask the participent to reaveal her thoughts to you. Instead ask her to tell everybody else what she thought. This is psychologically implying that you DO know and she is merely informing the non-mentalists in the room!
"I believe the human race and fish can co-exist peacefully" -GEORGE W. BUSH
sbays
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I never do a one ahead unless I am doing Fourth Dimentional Telepathy type of routine. This way, all of the writing on paper has been done already. In the situation above, I probably would have gone into a NW effect; this way the writing was done first .. right? Smile Or I would have used the SUC, a CT or Acidus Novus etc.

As said above, whenever you do a routine like this; the paper must be treated with indifference at all times. Same with a peek case, envelope etc. The focus should be on divining the information.
"Opportunity may only knock once, but temptation leans on the doorbell."
Decomposed
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Quote:
Also don't hold 3 pieces of paper- as this gets people trying to figure out what the 3 pieces are for.
use a pad and tear off the sheets as you go.



I agree, also with previous. I also use one ahead for 4th Dimensional and have looked at Q n A. If someone figures either of these out so be it. It hasn't happened yet. With 4th you have everything sealed in envelopes. No cause for a problem spectator. And with that scared screwed up look on your face before each envelope opening, usually those types are waiting for the proverbial goof up:)
blpprt
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Thanks for your ideas.
Well dang! I thought I had a really powerful, impromptu mentalism effect ready but I see that its sort of a "basic" approach and there are more finessful ways of doing this sort of routine. I like the idea of not putting much emphasis on the papers...and also asking the spectator to tell the other spectators (not the mentalist) what they were thinking (provided that there is more than one spectator and that they don't whisper to each other).
Since I'm not very knowledgeable about mentalism, where can I find a description of the 4th Dimension?...or any other more creative, i.e., bulletproof methods?
Thanks again to everyone for your ideas and help.
Bob L.
mike89
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Blpprt you can find 4th dimension on Bob Cassidy's Mental Miracles or Richard Osterlind's Easy to Master Mental Miracles(forget which volume). A fantastic routine. Floored me when I saw Cassidy perform it, comes highly recommended.
"I believe the human race and fish can co-exist peacefully" -GEORGE W. BUSH
adgnyc
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You might want to look into using an X-pert (there are many threads about this utility gimmick on the Café). To the keen spectator, this precludes the use of the one-ahead principle. (In this case, is it actually the one-behind principle?) I have also, using a p**k wallet, asked the spec to do a simple drawing on the back of a business card and used this as the force item. (I do this at the beginning, then say I'll get back to it later. The only trick is not to be too obvious about doing the drawing on the first card.)
Adam Green
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Decomposed
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Quote:
On 2005-12-23 17:47, adgnyc wrote:
I have also, using a p**k wallet, asked the spec to do a simple drawing on the back of a business card and used this as the force item. (I do this at the beginning, then say I'll get back to it later. The only trick is not to be too obvious about doing the drawing on the first card.)



That is an excellent usage of the p**k wallet!
Snail
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Do what Richard does in Change of Mind - if you've seen it you know what he does with the pad. You can then say "How can I tamper with it or write on the next sheet - you've SIGNED your sheet!"
bunkyhenry
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Take a guess
chichi711
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I usually start to cry really loud. It takes the focus of of the effect and people forget what you where doing. Then you just move on like nothing happened. It is smooth sailing from there.

Okay seriously though I would look into what Snail is talking about. Osterlind is awsome!
MTaylor2002
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I have to agree with bunkyhenry -- without skipping a beat just take a guess! If you guess right, you're amazing. If you miss, you still hit two out of three and for some spectators that makes the whole mindreading thing seem even more real.
KiKi
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Quote:
On 2005-12-28 00:42, MTaylor2002 wrote:
I have to agree with bunkyhenry -- without skipping a beat just take a guess! If you guess right, you're amazing. If you miss, you still hit two out of three and for some spectators that makes the whole mindreading thing seem even more real.



hm, I disagree! laypeople who are smart can figure out how it works if you have one
prediction wrong! in mentalism it is better to be sometimes `off`, but in this effect it`s better to hit! kiki
jiggyjer
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You might want to look at TA Water's Mind Myth and Magic to read up on his ideas about the one ahead principle...he also has some strong ideas about prediction effects and mention's somewhere that they are quite difficult to sell. I agree with others and will say that I almost never use the onne ahead for a prediction rather than a reading, though I do have one routine I'll not divulge, but I will say that the predictions may fly a little better if they're in sealed and labeled envelopes. just my thoughts.

j
Stephen Long
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Bob has called attention to what is the inherent flaw in this type of one-ahead effect. I think it's reasonable for someone to ask, "Why should I tell you?" given the framework you're working in. Much better to reverse the effect and work it from back to front. In other words, you write something down and then ask them to tell you what it is you've written. Now it makes perfect sense for them to name their thought since they're the ones doing the mind reading, not you.
Hello.
KiKi
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I wouldn`t do it like `what did you think of`. just write something down, and AFTER that ask someone to name a number or pick one objekt you see on the table! for the second person you can use a marked deck or BCS. so the spectator don´t have to tell you the card. last but not least for the force, I use a pateo force , or better a double head or tail coin. borrow some change ad your `double`coin. have the spectator throw the coins on the table and sort out head or tail. the coin left over at the end is your double coin. that`s a great and convincing force.
kiki
blpprt
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Hi All,
I really like the idea of presenting the trick so that the spectator does the "amazing deed". The result is just as powerful and there is much less of the challenge over-tone. I even changed the way I'm doing the "Eight-Card Brainwave" by Nick Trost. Instead of telling the spectator that I'm going to predict a choice that he/she will make of a certain card, I tell the spectator to simply select one card that seems special...one that stands out in their mind. Then I show how the spectator has a hightened sense of intuition by displaying that the thought of card has a different colored back from the other cards.
Great idea! Thanks!
Bob L.
Conlaw
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I do a similar effect as described in the original post in impromptu situations. I get around the situation by not asking them to say the information at all. Instead, I tear a sheet off of my pad before I begin, take a pencil/pen and write the numbers 1-3 (or however many I am going to do) and hand them the sheet and the pen. I then take my pad and a different pen and write my prediction, tear off the sheet and place it face down and say I am committed to that prediction. I then ask them to write down their thought by the number one. I have never had anyone refuse. As they write I can obviously see it and so can everyone else. Rinse and repeat for the other predictions.

Conlaw
equivoque
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I think what everyone here is posting is that the one ahead method is just that-a method and not an effect or a routine in and of itself. The Three Envelope Test by Boby Cassidy (Originally called Fourth Dimensional Telepathy by Annemann as others have pointed out) is a good example of a routine that uses this method. A good commercial routine is Jaks or Better. Midway Dream in SYZYGY combines one ahead and a forcing matrix in a powerful routine. If you are familiar with this effect, you know that audiences love it. Making people play imaginary carnival games provides them with a reason to call out their answers and they love to throw those invisible darts!



Combining one ahead with a peal or nail writer or billet switch is also a good idea. Using different methods to accomplish the same effect keeps them guessing...
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