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lane99
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If anyone has any suggestions, they would be appreciated:

I want to do a trick where I need to force the top two cards. The FACE of none of the cards in the deck can be seen or flashed. And, after the two cards have been forced, the deck has to be in it's original setup order (i.e. the third, throu to the 52nd card have to be in the same order they were in at the start (before the forces).


Until now, I've been using the Slip Force to force the first card, and the Cut Force to force the second. Cut Force works well. The Slip force doesn't (face of bottom card of the "upper half" of the deck is flashed...unless you keep your hand horizontal...which is what I tried...which allowed the participant see that I merely slipped the top card of the top and forced it to him...darn, I knew it probably would happen, but thought it's try to "slip" it by him).

I need to replace the Slip Force. Any suggestions? Oh, my other requested criteria would be that it has to be as easy as the Slip Force, since I admit I not that dexterous. I can add that none of the forces in Tarbell capture my interest for this purpose.
Jaz
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For the first card
"Criss Cross Force".
Cut and "Riffle Force" or "Classic Force".
Daegs
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Cut with break and then two riffle forces.
or
two classic forces Smile
or
two Hofzinser underspread forces,

etc., etc....

There are many forces that accomplish what you want.... what is the effect, then you can pick a force that works with the effect you want....
Hideo Kato
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If guessing two cards are not the main effect, Riffle force would be fine to force two cards in one excution. It seems Classic Force is not suitable for the situation as failure of the force is vital.

Maybe we can advice better Force if the exact effect is provided.

Hideo Kato
scorch
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If you can double undercut the top two cards to the bottom, you can then do any manner of bottom deal force. The easiest and most practical that I know is Jay Sankey's Wichita Slip, available in a number of his products.
h4xor
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I'm quite new to card force..
can anyone recommend any DVD / Books focusing on this matter ?
Dynamike
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Paul Green's dvd teaches the Classic Force. That is the number one card force because everything looks usual and spectators (even magicians) won't have any idea it is being done. It takes a lot of practice. Most people recommend Paul Green as the number #1 magician who uses it.

The second book "Now you see it, now you don't" teaches the riffle force.
rosfrog
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I would recommend the classic force for two reasons:

1) it makes no sense to have two cards selected in two different ways.
2) done correctly, it is totally invisible.

Good luck!
Elliott Hodges
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To force two cards I either use the cross cut or the cut deeper
PaulGreen
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Thanks to DynaMike for his continued support and kindness. I am so glad that my technique for the Classic Force have allowed many to learn this strong subtlety.

I have considered the conditions set by the original posting and would point you in these directions:

1. Cross Cut Force--Have your force cards on the top and bottom. When the cut is made, use the "top" card from one talon and the "bottom" card from the other.

2. Ken Beale Business Card Force--Again the cards are on the top and bottom of the deck.

3. Balducci Cut Deeper Force--The top two cards are postitioned on the top of the deck. After the procedure, the cards are righted and the deck remains in stacked order.

Good luck in finding a solution that works for you.

Regards,

Paul Green
Jaz
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Lane99 says
Quote:
The FACE of none of the cards in the deck can be seen or flashed.


Wouldn't the "Balducci Cut Deeper Force" show the face of other cards?
jaschris
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To learn forces try Volume 4 of dary'ls Encyclopedia of card Sleights DVD. Or if you want a basic grounding of card magic with forces included try Richard Kaufman's Basic Card Technique.
To answer the original question criss cross force for top. cut the cards holding break and do riffle force for the second card.
PaulGreen
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Hi Jaz,

Your are correct. It just goes to show you that I need to pay more attention!!!!

Regards,

Paul
lane99
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If I'm not mistaken, the "riffle force" is the same as what I learned as the "slip force" (you riffle thru the deck with your thumb, participant calls "stop", then you let them take the card from the TOP of the BOTTOM half of the deck (which is, in reality, the card which was originally on the very TOP of the deck). This is the force I was using, but it doesn't work well for my trick, because when you pull away the upper half of the deck (while presenting the bottom half to the participant) people can see the FACE of the card which is on the BOTTOM of the TOP half of the deck. And this is no good for me (because that card (along with most of the other cards in the deck) is BLANK.

As for "criss cross force", this is the force I learned as the "cut force". And, yes, this works well for me. But I didn't want to use it TWICE in a row (to force two separate cards) as I thought people might catch on. Yes? No?

It's a good idea to use it ONCE, and then take the two cards (as PaulGreen advised). Except, for my particular trick, I don't think it's appropriate, because the two force cards are ultimately going to be shown to "match" each other...so I worry that people will be able to reconstruct they were "next to each other" when they cut the deck.

Yes, I should have explained the trick itself (sorry I didn't, at first):

I will use a couple (man/wife, bf/gf, etc). Man will "randomly" choose a card; woman will randomly choose a card....when revealed, we see man chose KH, woman chose QH...a perfect "love" match...

...next, I will start dealing cards face down, and ask man to call "stop"...and will use KH to mark that spot (and I'll replace the remaining deck on top); then I start dealing again, and ask woman to call "stop"...and I mark the spot, and replace the remaining cards on top...

...spread through the cards, and take out the face UP KH (along with the face DOWN card next to it...which should be the card where the partipant had me stop dealing), and likewise with the face UP QH...the face DOWN cards are revealed to be the KD and QD...ANOTHER perfect love match...

...Finally, to prove that these love matches has been this couple's destiny all along, and that it was their "fate" to be lovers, the remaining 48 cards in the deck are spread face up on the table...and they are all BLANK.

SO, at the start, the deck is stacked, from the top: KH-QH-QD-48 BLANK cards-KD. I then force the KH, and QH. After these cards have been forced, for the dealing/call "stop"/mark the spot to work, the remaining deck (minus the KH, QH) has to be in the original order (i.e. QD-48 BLANK cards-KD).

...Well, because of the blank cards, when I do the "riffle/slip" force, the face of one of the blank cards is going to be flashed (which is a no-no). So that's why I wanted another replace it with an alternative force that is simple, and 100pct success rate (which, for example, I think excludes the "classic force" for my purpose here...though, I know the classic force is awesome).
coupcoupdaddy
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Bill Simon's Prophecy Move.
foreign correspondent, z and lt



inner being worker
coupcoupdaddy
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Whoops..that's Ken Beale's Business Card isn't it? Sorry.
foreign correspondent, z and lt



inner being worker
Jaz
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OK.

The Slip force, as you call it, would be that
the card to be forced is on top, you riffle w/ thumb and as you seperate the halves the top/force is slipped from top half to bottom half.

With the Riffle Force you cut the force to center first, hold a break, riffle and wherever they say stop you still cut to the break.
scorch
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Taking a cue from Mr. Green's excellent idea of having the selection be on top and bottom, you could also use the concept behind Vinny's Giggle Force. One card would be the bottom card which is normally forced in that technique, and the other would be the top card, which "appears" to be the very next card cut to. Or, alternatively, you could force two cards from the bottom of the deck with this technique, either sequentially as two separate selections, or as two cards selected at once. No matter how you wanted to do it, both cards would appear as random selections from the middle of the deck, and it's a very easy force.

I believe this force (just the "force" part of the Giggle force, which is actually a force and a control) appears in Card College (volume 4?) under a different name. Perhaps somebody else knows what I'm talking about and can post the exact name and volume it appears in.
lane99
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Quote:
On 2005-12-25 19:41, Jaz wrote:
With the Riffle Force you cut the force to center first, hold a break, riffle and wherever they say stop you still cut to the break.


Jaz, thank you. Alright, I understand now exactly the difference between the force I've been using and the Riffle Force.
quanfer
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I would also suggest using the same force for both cards to make it look more natural. The classic force has worked well for me when its unexpected, which is always. If you want something else that is more "solid", I'd just cull the card, have the spectator touch the back of any card, separate your spread, add the culled card and turn it over. I'm sure theres a name for this force, but it is just something I've been doing. The riffle force would probably be the easiest one to do in this situation. Good luck to ya
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