We Remember The Magic Café We Remember
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Nostradamus (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page 1~2 [Next]
limhanchung
View Profile
Veteran user
Malaysia
342 Posts

Profile of limhanchung
Can any magic/mentalist principles be able to explain Nostradamus capability to predict the future?Was it real?
Philemon Vanderbeck
View Profile
Inner circle
Seattle, WA
4484 Posts

Profile of Philemon Vanderbeck
Retrofitting.
Professor Philemon Vanderbeck
That Creepy Magician
"I use my sixth sense to create the illusion of possessing the other five."
Seance
View Profile
Elite user
Talking on the other side with
404 Posts

Profile of Seance
Nostrudamus wrote the book "Centuries" in quatrains, which are like paragraphs in poetry. He also wrote in very vague terms and descriptions what he "foresaw" in the future.

Also the quatrains were not placed in a straight timeline, meaning events mentioned in one place would not happen before events that had been written in another quatrain much further along in the book had "happened".

All of this makes it easy to interpret his quatrains to fit the events of the day.

Not the best authority to consult if you want to know about the future...
CENDRE
View Profile
Veteran user
FRANCE
334 Posts

Profile of CENDRE
I hope I will use the correct English term :

Confabulation !

It's a wonderful tool that let you interpret (or much more funny : make a spectator interpret) step by step a general thing (which can fit to many many situations) into a very specific fact.

In France we have Pascal Froment who practices a lot the confabulation principle. It's very very funny because in the end of a confabulation sceance (and if you are good at it) the spectators are convinced that the interpretation of the original proposition is the only good one !!! Smile

Nostradamus gave us gems to do confabulation !

See you soon,
Il était une fois...

CENDRE
Paris
FRANCE
limhanchung
View Profile
Veteran user
Malaysia
342 Posts

Profile of limhanchung
So,
That means Nostradamus was a fake?
JimMaloney
View Profile
Inner circle
1184 Posts

Profile of JimMaloney
Yup. Not one of his predictions that had specific dates/times/places came true. Any of his vague predictions that have "come true" are simply a matter of probability -- eventually, something will come along that will sort of fit into what he said.

For example, I could say "You will embark on a long journey." Well, ok, what does that mean? When? There's a pretty good chance that at some point in your life, you will take a long journey. What if you're crippled or paralyzed, you say? Well, a long journey for you could simply be going from your bed to the toilet! And what if you never leave your bed? Well, can't death be seen as a long journey? Then, we could get someone like John Edward to come in and give even more vague impressions so that we can communicate with you about your long journey to the afterlife. It's basically self-fulfilling. The "prophet" implants a seed in your brain, and you try to come up with circumstances that will fit it. It's a fairly common technique among cold readers.

-Jim
Books and Magazines for sale -- more than 200 items (Last updated January 17th, 2014. Link goes to public Google Doc.)
mysticz
View Profile
Special user
D.C. metro area
680 Posts

Profile of mysticz
The fact that Nostradomus' premonitions can be arbitrarily dismissed by skeptics does not mean that he didn't have the ability to see into the future. And even if you believe the skeptics' diatribes concerning his work, there is still no certifiable evidence that Nostradomus intentionally wrote his quatrains to con his readers... therefore, it is not correct to assume he was a "fake."

Joe Z.
Joe Zabel
"Psychic Sorcery"

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

-- Shakespeare's Hamlet I.v. 174-175
Rodney Massey
View Profile
Loyal user
pickering, ontario
231 Posts

Profile of Rodney Massey
Are we magicians to assume he had genuine supernatural powers, Mysticz?
mysticz
View Profile
Special user
D.C. metro area
680 Posts

Profile of mysticz
No, it is purely up to you to decide the validity of Nostradomus' alleged abilities. My advice is to read information from both sides of the subject before you make any final decisions concerning any controversy. My point is that the popular skeptical writings concerning Nostradomus' quatrains present merely speculation, not "carved-in-stone" fact.
Read about Nostradomus and his work from both sides before you condemn him as a fake or medieval con man. Randi and his ilk are not the final word on anything -- just another opinion to consider.

Everyone, including magicians, can benefit from an open mind.

Joe Z.
Joe Zabel
"Psychic Sorcery"

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

-- Shakespeare's Hamlet I.v. 174-175
alby
View Profile
New user
Mexico
13 Posts

Profile of alby
I believe that in a perfect world everybody, specially magicians that usually are acquainted with methods of deceiving, should agree that science is the best tool we have to understand the world and should agree with Carl Sagan when he said: "Extraordinary claims, require extraordinary evidence", so, to believe that Nostradamus was able to predict the future we need solid proofs,not just coincidences of the vague predictions he made and things that really happened. Is the believers of Nostradamus who should proof that he was real not the other way around.
If we believe in Nostradamus should we believe also in the Bible Code predictions, when a little understanding of probability theory makes it clear that those predictions can be found by the same method in any sufficient large book, perhaps Moby Dick...
Mike Powers
View Profile
Inner circle
Midwest
2907 Posts

Profile of Mike Powers
Whether Nostradamus purported to predict the future or just wrote nice poetry that was later analyzed really isn't the issue. The real issue is whether or not a bunch of vague mumbo jumbo which is later retrofitted into some historical event is MEANINGFUL. The answer is that it's not.

If I write a bunch of vague "predictions" and wait 500 years, I'll bet I can fit them to historical events which have occurred. This is especially true when I get to say "Hister" was actually "Hitler" etc.

If the question is whether Nostrodomus' predictions are MEANINGFUL, I think the answer is an unequivocal NO.

Mike

(Also note that there are plenty of fake Nostrodomus items flying around.)
Jim Morton
View Profile
Veteran user
361 Posts

Profile of Jim Morton
Quote:
On 2002-11-14 12:46, JimMaloney wrote:
Quote:
On 2002-11-14 12:29, limhanchung wrote:
So,
That means Nostradamus was a fake?


Yup. Not one of his predictions that had specific dates/times/places came true.


That suggests to me that he was not a fake, merely yet another person who thought he had powers that he did not have. A fake would have made sure that his provable predictions came true.

Jim Morton
foreva.infiniti
View Profile
Regular user
6 Posts a + a 6 Posts =
116 Posts

Profile of foreva.infiniti
I thought it was real. Until the world didn't end.... That goes for the bible code too.
Colors are Foreva. Numbers are Infinite. 4 every number there's a color. HEY! Eternity! Lets smoke a beer and drink some loud. But wait! I heard you was a six a plus a 6 ahhhh.
LobowolfXXX
View Profile
Inner circle
La Famiglia
1197 Posts

Profile of LobowolfXXX
Quote:
On 2002-11-14 09:06, limhanchung wrote:
Can any magic/mentalist principles be able to explain Nostradamus capability to predict the future?Was it real?


The most important of all magic/mentalist principles: Take credit for all coincidences.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
kambiz
View Profile
Inner circle
Perth, down by the cool of the pool
1129 Posts

Profile of kambiz
Quote:
On 2013-07-11 23:50, foreva.infiniti wrote:
I thought it was real. Until the world didn't end.... That goes for the bible code too.


So you're saying you've never had a dream or vision that has come true at a later date?

Kam
If I speak forth, many a mind will shatter,
And if I write, many a pen will break.
.....and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay!
irossall
View Profile
Special user
Snohomish, Washington
529 Posts

Profile of irossall
Quote:
On 2002-11-26 08:39, Mike Powers wrote:
Whether Nostradamus purported to predict the future or just wrote nice poetry that was later analyzed really isn't the issue. The real issue is whether or not a bunch of vague mumbo jumbo which is later retrofitted into some historical event is MEANINGFUL. The answer is that it's not.

If I write a bunch of vague "predictions" and wait 500 years, I'll bet I can fit them to historical events which have occurred. This is especially true when I get to say "Hister" was actually "Hitler" etc.

If the question is whether Nostrodomus' predictions are MEANINGFUL, I think the answer is an unequivocal NO.

Mike

(Also note that there are plenty of fake Nostrodomus items flying around.)


Couldn't agree more. Very well said.

Edgar Cayce is the one person that needs to be studied more by the Science community. His medical advice and predictions (at least most of them) were right on AND there was no need for interpretation.
Mr. Cayce might have been a phoney but I have not seen anything that has convinced me that he was a "fake".
Iven Smile
Give the gift of Life, Be an Organ Donor.
MobilityBundle
View Profile
Regular user
Las Vegas/Boston
120 Posts

Profile of MobilityBundle
Although this wasn't Nostradamus's technique, it's close enough to mention:

A common thing people like to do is look for encoded messages in long works, like the bible or whatnot. E.g., "starting at such-and-such place, skip every 20th letter and circle the 21st. Do that 100 times, and it spells so-and-so."

People who do that may be genuine, but they fail to grasp that such messages are inevitable (and therefore meaningless) in any long string of text. Here's a write-up that probably contains much more detail than anyone's interested in:

http://www.math.u-bordeaux1.fr/~ybilu/various/habtalk/
Al Angello
View Profile
Eternal Order
Collegeville, Pa. USA
11047 Posts

Profile of Al Angello
Nostradamus was the first mentalist, and there are many people who attribute these types of powers to Kreskin, Paul Pacific, and amazing Bob Cassidy.
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com
http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/
"Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone"
irossall
View Profile
Special user
Snohomish, Washington
529 Posts

Profile of irossall
Quote:
On 2013-07-12 10:43, Al Angello wrote:
Nostradamus was the first mentalist, and there are many people who attribute these types of powers to Kreskin, Paul Pacific, and amazing Bob Cassidy.


I'm sure there were many Mentalist's before Nostradamus. How about John of Patmos?
Iven Smile
Give the gift of Life, Be an Organ Donor.
foreva.infiniti
View Profile
Regular user
6 Posts a + a 6 Posts =
116 Posts

Profile of foreva.infiniti
Quote:
On 2013-07-12 00:53, kambiz wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-07-11 23:50, foreva.infiniti wrote:
I thought it was real. Until the world didn't end.... That goes for the bible code too.


So you're saying you've never had a dream or vision that has come true at a later date?

Kam


I fully know premonitions themselves are real its just Nastrodamus who Im beginning to doubt. I experienced a premonition myself. It was a dream:

For some reason me and a police officer were fighting down some flights of stairs. When continued fighting until we reached the bottom and we went through the 1st floor door. Thru that door was a carwash.

This came true so to speak but not at a later day. THE MORNING I WOKE UP! I didn't wanna go to school (10th grade) and my mom threaten to call the police and she did for dayime curfew. I was a different person then I didn't acknowledge authority and Im like if my own mom cant make me go to school what make you think you can? I didn't say that my actions did. He grabbed me (like police often do) and one thing lead to another and we where fighting. It wasnt much of a fight since it was a grown man vs a teen... After he got me in the car he somehow got me to open up to him and I guess he felt sorry for me. He took me to wendy's and bought me a bacon cheeseburger (i hate myself for being a carnivore back then) and he told me on the way to the station that if I got my act together he would give me a job at this shop he owned. A CAR DETAILING SHOP! I know its not a carwash but for all that to happen hours after that vision kinda scared me. I've had visions after that but none ever came close to being as clear as this one. It messed me up though because whenever I dream something really bad or sad hasppens to someone I care about I get very anxious. Like its really gonna happen.
Colors are Foreva. Numbers are Infinite. 4 every number there's a color. HEY! Eternity! Lets smoke a beer and drink some loud. But wait! I heard you was a six a plus a 6 ahhhh.
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Nostradamus (0 Likes)
 Go to page 1~2 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2021 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.18 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL