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interstate_dj
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Hello,

I am giving a short 5 minute talk to children regarding the Holy Ghost. Does anyone have a trick that you wouldn't mind sharing that could tie into the purpose of the Holy Ghost?

I want to be able to convey a message that the children will remember, and what better way than through magic!!!

Thanks in advance,

Jerry Pierce
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Thetruthteller
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Perhaps something built around a Glorpy?
You may not see the Holy Ghost but his presence can be detected.
Chessmann
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Perhaps also something about the HS's role as helper/teacher. Or the section in Acts about receiving power when the HGhost comes upon you.
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
interstate_dj
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I mainly need visual effects that tie in the purpose. Another forum memember recommended the crystal tube where three individual silks enter the tube and are blown out of the other end tied together representing each individual Father, Son, and Holy Ghost but one in purpose.

I thought that was a great visualization.

Any other thoughts?

Thanks
Jerry Pierce
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Chessmann
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Jerry,

The Crystal Tube has been mentioned here a few times before with that application, so it appears you may not have used the Café's search engine. If you have not done so, give that a try - you may come up with quite a bit of helpful information that has been posted over the last few years.

Mark
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
carolina illusionist
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Duane Laflin does a great presentation of the Trinity using 20th Century silks. It is on one of his tapes. I used it many times this past summer in Romania. It is extremely visual.

Michael
interstate_dj
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Sorry Mark, but when I attempted a search on the topic, it gave me invalid results. That is the reason I started this thread because I could not find a relevant search result.

Sometimes we have to start over even though others are aware of the same topic being in the forums.

Michael,

Thanks for your suggestion as well.
Jerry Pierce
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Daniel Faith
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I use Healed and Sealed for this.
Daniel Faith
Magic Arty
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I used the old stamp album trick. The theme of being filled with the Holy Spirit to fullness to have the power to do the work God the Father has set for us to do through his son Jesus.
I talk about how I may look good on the outside, but on the inside I am blank. Christ in me gives me fullness of life, (golly life itself!) and purpose. The Holy Spirit is the impowerment of that fullness life and purpose. They all go together, You cannot have one without the other. The stamps now fill the book.
I then talk about the stamp and it's purpose. " You can write a wonderfull letter to your best friend, but without the stamp it aint going nowhere. So the same without the Holy Spirit working in you. You can say all the right things, but without his Indwelling, it aint going to do anything.
Arthur Atsma
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leftytheclown
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I use a "DT" for a color changing silk routine using Is 1:18 "Come let us reason...". Upon completion of the change, I ask, "How does God do this? Then I mention that only the Holy Spirit can draw a person to God.
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BroDavid
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Richard Osterlind's "Solid Ghost" would be an interesting effect.

You could speak of the white Handkerchief as being God the Trinity, and when we need to hear that still small voice, fold the handkerchief as per the instructions and as the handkerchief "forms" the "object" which can be tapped with a spoon or other hard object to make a sound, then you can whisk away teh handkerchief and shows that it was all part of God the Trinity.

Solid Ghost is unlike a Glorpy or haunted hank. The spectactor can actually "touch" the solid object formed under it. And yet is goes away as clean as a Glorpy. I had worned out a couple of Glorpies over the years. And they were pretty amazing, but Solid Ghost stands alone and might play better for this type of an effect.

BroDavid
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noumena
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Isn't anyone worried that such presentations as mentioned above will likely create a false understanding of an already widely misunderstood doctrine? The Holy Spirit does not have a body or physical presence. The Holy Spirit is not a force. Rather, the Holy Spirit is a Person of the Trinity. Theologians have broken down the Ministry of the Holy Spirit into three different aspects.

1. The Work of Inspiration
2. The Work of Synergy (not to be confused with synergism)
3. Testimony

The Holy Spirit moved the men that wrote the Bible so that it would be the inerrant Word of God. The Holy Spirit also works with (creates a synergy) the Word of God, so that we may say that the Spirit speaks through God’s word. The Holy Spirit also testifies to man through God’s Gospel giving us the only way to move from “believing that” to “believing in” the Gospel. The Spirit was sent to glorify Christ (John 16:14). Shouldn’t any presentation concerning the Holy Spirit then illustrate this biblical teaching?

Just a thought,
Brandon Cross
calamari
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I am not sure this is the way to go (magic to represent the Holy Spirit) but if I remember correctly (raised in the chirch and eight years of private religious school) one of the first representations of the Holy Spirit was when John the Babtist, babtised Jesus and a dove landed on the head of christ, (or something to that effect) I think if I was a kid and heard that story and you produced a dove at that moment..1. I would never forget it and 2. I might need a change of underware. but I would still be a little uncomfortable with this or any presentation of magic when it comes to the Holy Spirit only because I was raised to be very reverent when it comes to God the Father God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.
"I came, I saw, SHE conquered." (The original Latin seems to have been garbled.)
Magic Arty
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Brandon, I agree with you that there should be worry on teaching on this topic. To think that one could even begin to encompas the vastness of the Godhead in a simple five minute routine that is using sleight of hand is silly, and should be approcahed with fear and trembling.
The Holy Spirit is even much greater than the summation of 1>inspiration 2>work of synergy 3>testimony.
The Holy Spirit is fully God as is the Father, and Jesus is.
When I think on it I realize how lame any explanation, definition, or description is that I can give! I can, however tell you that I know Him, and His presence is more than real! He has no begining and no end, He has a plan for your and my life!
Blessings,
Arthur Atsma
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noumena
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Arthur,

Thanks for input. Just to clarify, I did not say that the Holy Spirit's greatness was limited to inspiration, synergy and testimony. I did say that the Holy Spirit's ministry is limited to those things mentioned. This is nothing new and has been the standard teaching of the church since the Apostles. For example, God the father's ministy as well as the Holy Spirit's ministry is limited in the sense that it does not include dying on the cross for the sins of the world.

The doctrine of the Trinity has been such a thing of confussion I think it is important to make such clarifications. Moreover, such clarifications should be pressent in our presentations. We should bring clarity not confussion.

- Brandon Cross
noumena
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I forgot to mention that the Holy Spirit was not represented as a dove. Rather, the Scriptures teach that they manner in which the Holy Spirit decended on Christ was like a dove. The social context as well as the greek wording indicate that the Holy Spirit did not look like a dove nor was represented by one or as one, rather that the Spirit of God was graceful towards Christ. Just another clarification I think is important.

- Brandon Cross
Terry Holley
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Quote:
On 2006-02-08 16:00, noumena wrote:
I forgot to mention that the Holy Spirit was not represented as a dove. Rather, the Scriptures teach that they manner in which the Holy Spirit decended on Christ was like a dove. The social context as well as the greek wording indicate that the Holy Spirit did not look like a dove nor was represented by one or as one, rather that the Spirit of God was graceful towards Christ. Just another clarification I think is important.

- Brandon Cross


Brandon:

Are you saying that John did not see some type of physical manifestation of the Holy Spirit? While not directly stating it was a literal dove, the Scripture indicates that there was some type of "bodily form" present that descended on Jesus (Luke 3:22). This seems to indicate more than your term "graceful."

Terry
Co-author with illusionist Andre' Kole of "Astrology and Psychic Phenomena."
noumena
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Terry,

Thanks for the reply, however please be careful not to read anything into what I said. I did not say that John did not see a bodily form. The verse says "like a dove", not as a dove. The greek text is quite clear as are many contemporary english translations (NIV, NASB, NRSV, ext).

Moreover, what I am saying is nothing more that what the vast majority of biblical scholars and theologians have said through the entire history of the church. I am not saying anything new, nor am I saying anything different than what the Scriptures say.

I hope that makes sense and is clear. Often discussions on these topics require a lot of clarification and detail.

- Brandon Cross
Terry Holley
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Brandon:

I'm just questioning the concept of "graceful," as I see no mention of this in the greek text. I'm interested to know how you came to that conclusion.

Also, it appears to me that the "bodily form" that appeared "as a dove" points to the fact that it looked like a dove, although it may have not been a literal dove. Your original post seemed to point us away from a physical manifestation. The Scripture indicates that this physical manifestation of the Holy Spirit was the clincher for John in realizing that Christ was the Son of God (John 1:32-34).

Terry
Co-author with illusionist Andre' Kole of "Astrology and Psychic Phenomena."
noumena
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Terry,

Sorry for the confussion and misleading you. That was not my intent at all. I'll stop from the theology talk in a forum for magic. Theology has never been well recieved on here, I think it was a mistake of mine in the first place. I really need to learn to keep my mouth shut around here. If you are honestly interested PM me and I'd be happy to talk theology.

- Brandon Cross
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