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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Gaffed & Funky » » Clear, Plastic Playing Cards: Bowing to the Pressure of Numerous PMs (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

Scott Kahn
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Clayton, NC
777 Posts

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To my fellow friends in magic:

In a recent thread posted on this Forum concerning the use of a visible signature switch on clear PVC playing cards, I attempted to simply illustrate that a user's original idea (while brilliant and idependently created) was not a new concept, but had, in fact, appeared in print before, citing my first set of lecture notes, which is no longer in print. While I never claimed to be the originator of the idea, I discussed the issue with the member via PMs and I agreed to share my routine with him in a private message to illustrate that the principle existed previous to his discovery of the principle. However, since then, my character has publically come under attack in numerous posts as having "jacked the idea" from this user or "trying to claim the idea" but failing to do so. It has also somehow apparently been "confirmed by the proper authorities within the Magic Circle and the Temple of The Illuminati" that this user is the creator of this concept and that "[he] must be mentioned before any performance of it???"

I have also received numerous PMs saying that if my routine existed previously and I want to receive appropriate credit, I should publically post the routine here on the board. I am not sure what kind of logic is in there, as this is a public forum. But that being said, if anyone is interested in reading the original routine, simply PM me and I will send it to them. I am doing this against my better judgement , as I still plan on re-releasing my original lecture notes/manuscript again later this spring, along with numerous updates since it was first released (I am currently re-writing them). But I am a well-established and respected user of this forum, so in an effort to avoid any more public character attacks, I've decided to release it to those requesting it to decidedly establish that the routine had in fact existed prior to its "rediscovery" and I am not trying to "jack" ideas.

Thank you all those who PM'd me with support and encourgement to do this. I hope everyone has a Happy and Healthy New Year in 2006.

Respectfully submitted,
Scott Kahn, MD
Scott Kahn, M.D.

KAHNCEPTUAL CARD MAGIC: MORE DECEPTIVE PRACTICES WITH PLAYING CARDS
https://kahnjuring.com/kahnceptual-card-magic/

KAHNJURING: DECEPTIVE PRACTICES WITH PLAYING CARDS
https://kahnjuring.com/kahnjuring/

SWINDLES, SCAMS & KAHNS
https://kahnjuring.com/swindles-scams-kahns/
blindbo
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Bucks County, PA
790 Posts

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I can't name one original idea. I wish I could.
I beleive you had the thoughts you speak about and have no doubt they are in your notes.
I think the "confirmed by the proper authorities within the Magic Circle..." statement was tongue in cheek.
I think people are overreacting.
Thank you for the well wishes for 2006. I wish you the same.
JackScratch
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Inner circle
2151 Posts

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Scott, other than disagreeing with your use of the word "jack" I think you can stand your ground. I'm telling you man, there are a lot of well respected and fine magicians on this forum. That being said, to my knowledge, no magic group has any extra legal authority beyond those possesed by any person. If you believe your right, then let em "bring it". I'm a big fan of keeping an open mind, and if someone actualy makes a good case, the by gum, you should be open to that, but no one should be able to make you do something you don't believe in through some scare tactic.

Drew Heyen, Troublemaker
Scott Kahn
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Clayton, NC
777 Posts

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Thank you for your support. For those asking for the routine, I'll send it out right away.

--Scott
Scott Kahn, M.D.

KAHNCEPTUAL CARD MAGIC: MORE DECEPTIVE PRACTICES WITH PLAYING CARDS
https://kahnjuring.com/kahnceptual-card-magic/

KAHNJURING: DECEPTIVE PRACTICES WITH PLAYING CARDS
https://kahnjuring.com/kahnjuring/

SWINDLES, SCAMS & KAHNS
https://kahnjuring.com/swindles-scams-kahns/
abc
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South African in Taiwan
1081 Posts

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I read the posts in the secret sessions and here and frankly my girlfriend bougt me a pack of see thru cards in Canada when she went there on vacation in July and I have been doing an exact same routine mentioned for 5 months. I can not believe the fuss over this nor do I think I want to get involved in this kind of a conversation. I didn't post anything on it because the idea is so simple that I didn't think it even needs mentioning. The first time I performed it was August 2005 and if anybody wants me to mention their name before I perform the effect I will gladly do so with a piece of my mind attached to it.
Scott I will mail you the routine I do and would love to compare notes on it.
Regards
Scott Kahn
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Clayton, NC
777 Posts

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Thank you ABC

--Scott
Scott Kahn, M.D.

KAHNCEPTUAL CARD MAGIC: MORE DECEPTIVE PRACTICES WITH PLAYING CARDS
https://kahnjuring.com/kahnceptual-card-magic/

KAHNJURING: DECEPTIVE PRACTICES WITH PLAYING CARDS
https://kahnjuring.com/kahnjuring/

SWINDLES, SCAMS & KAHNS
https://kahnjuring.com/swindles-scams-kahns/
Scott Kahn
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Clayton, NC
777 Posts

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For those of you that have requested my routine, it has been PM'd to you.

I apologize for the delay, but please remember that I am a physician by trade, and have been quite busy this week.

I'd love to hear some feedback.

Enjoy!

--Scott Kahn, MD
Scott Kahn, M.D.

KAHNCEPTUAL CARD MAGIC: MORE DECEPTIVE PRACTICES WITH PLAYING CARDS
https://kahnjuring.com/kahnceptual-card-magic/

KAHNJURING: DECEPTIVE PRACTICES WITH PLAYING CARDS
https://kahnjuring.com/kahnjuring/

SWINDLES, SCAMS & KAHNS
https://kahnjuring.com/swindles-scams-kahns/
sodman12
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raleigh
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Can someone send me a link to the seceret sessions post I cant seem to find it.
Thanks
you can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all the time but never all of the people all the time.
Scott Kahn
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Clayton, NC
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Here is the link you are referring to:

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......7&46

My routine, however, was not posted in the secret sessions section, as this is a public forum

--Scott
Scott Kahn, M.D.

KAHNCEPTUAL CARD MAGIC: MORE DECEPTIVE PRACTICES WITH PLAYING CARDS
https://kahnjuring.com/kahnceptual-card-magic/

KAHNJURING: DECEPTIVE PRACTICES WITH PLAYING CARDS
https://kahnjuring.com/kahnjuring/

SWINDLES, SCAMS & KAHNS
https://kahnjuring.com/swindles-scams-kahns/
T-RAY
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Inner circle
1539 Posts

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Since Scott has written this post about me, I will respond to it. I came up with this use of the clear cards.....I loved it and posted it to share with all of you. By posting it, I opened myself up to the "I did it first" guys.....you know , the guys that always kill the fun in magic (similar to the want to be magicians who tell everyone "I know how he did it" and proceed to kill a magic moment). Well, Scott claimed he had come up with a similar thing and that my idea was "NOT NEW".... so I asked him to send me his routine or just share it with everyone here ....instead, he chose to get mad and defensive. In the end, I could care less....that's why I made fun of it by saying that I had recieved authority from the Temple Of the Illuminati and now everyone had to mention me when they performed it (while burning a dollar bill and looking at the all-seeing eye!). I thought this was clearly a joke, but not with this guy. He thought I was serious.....WOW! I think we all could learn a lot from this situation......are we in this for the audience and their excitement or just for our egos? I can definitely say that because of this situation, I will not be sharing any methods on this website. I just wonder how many other people are doing the same and how this is killing the TRUE MAGIC FRATERNITY.
WELL, to end this long winded response and add insult to an already bad scene, 10 days after I posted my idea.......Scott finally sent me his re-written routine and guess what........I don't believe Scott one bit (except where he says he "never claimed to be the originator of this idea")............and who cares......the trick is still FUN, SIMPLE and REAL PEOPLE LOVE IT.
Scott Kahn
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Clayton, NC
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Before this subject is put to sleep, I will reply to the post above. First of all, I never got mad at anyone and I never meant to offend anyone either. I apologize if anyone took any comment I made as defensive in nature, as this was never my intention. Secondly, I did share my routine with over 40 people that asked to see it and got positive feedback from quite a number of them, all of whom I thank sincerely. I do not think it is fair, however, to be asked to post a routine of mine on a public forum, which is why I shared them via PM. T-Ray felt it appropriate to make jokes at my expense, and that's fine. I could laugh at them too, in hindsight. In addition, if there is one thing that I do not have it is a big ego in magic. Medicine maybe, but magic definately not. (HA, see I can laugh at my expense). But I never meant to discourage the sharing of ideas on the forum either. After all, that's why we are all here. Again, I simply wanted to illustrate to all that the concept of interest had appeared in print before in case anyone wanted to reference it. And also, the reason it took 10 days to send my routine out is because I was in North Carolina for the holidays (557 miles away from the disc the routine was saved on) and was on-call the day I returned home and twice more that week. But, oh well. I sent it out as fast as I could. In closing, I am sorry that you do not believe me T-Ray, but the US Copyright office has the proof if need be. For now, I hope this issue is finally put to rest.

Respectfully, in friendship,
--Scott Kahn, MD

PS: Although the use of PVC cards and a signature switch idea remains under question, I must say that T-Ray's routine is quite different from mine indeed. I enjoyed his very much and encourage everyone to buy a deck or two of these cards and try it out. He's right. It is still FUN, SIMPLE and REAL PEOPLE LOVE IT.
Scott Kahn, M.D.

KAHNCEPTUAL CARD MAGIC: MORE DECEPTIVE PRACTICES WITH PLAYING CARDS
https://kahnjuring.com/kahnceptual-card-magic/

KAHNJURING: DECEPTIVE PRACTICES WITH PLAYING CARDS
https://kahnjuring.com/kahnjuring/

SWINDLES, SCAMS & KAHNS
https://kahnjuring.com/swindles-scams-kahns/
Marco S.
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Inner circle
1017 Posts

Profile of Marco S.
To me there is too much stuff going on by some people who even think they are more important than they really are. All this crediting stuff is nonsense with certain tricks since anybody can claim they did it first. Who should be the judge of this???
MField2000
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Hastings, East Sussex, England
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Quote:
On 2006-01-01 11:40, Scott Kahn wrote:
It has also somehow apparently been "confirmed by the proper authorities within the Magic Circle


I'd love to know who told you that. I'm the editor of The Magic Circle's magazine, The Magic Circular, and have read nothing about this in the Minutes of the governing board.

Feel free to PM me, or email me at MField2000@aol.com.

Matt Field
Scott Kahn
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Clayton, NC
777 Posts

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Matt:
I believe it was said as a joke.
--Scott
Scott Kahn, M.D.

KAHNCEPTUAL CARD MAGIC: MORE DECEPTIVE PRACTICES WITH PLAYING CARDS
https://kahnjuring.com/kahnceptual-card-magic/

KAHNJURING: DECEPTIVE PRACTICES WITH PLAYING CARDS
https://kahnjuring.com/kahnjuring/

SWINDLES, SCAMS & KAHNS
https://kahnjuring.com/swindles-scams-kahns/
Jonathan Townsend
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Eternal Order
Ossining, NY
27106 Posts

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Folks,

Prior art is something an issue in conjuring. Also there is much independant discovery of methods due to our monoculture/mass market of items in our larger society.

If left to their own, perhaps scott and t-ray could find a positive way to address any crediting issues on subsequent publications.

Jon
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Scott Kahn
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Clayton, NC
777 Posts

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Mr. Townsend:
I have attempted to address this issue. I couldn't agree more.
--Scott
Scott Kahn, M.D.

KAHNCEPTUAL CARD MAGIC: MORE DECEPTIVE PRACTICES WITH PLAYING CARDS
https://kahnjuring.com/kahnceptual-card-magic/

KAHNJURING: DECEPTIVE PRACTICES WITH PLAYING CARDS
https://kahnjuring.com/kahnjuring/

SWINDLES, SCAMS & KAHNS
https://kahnjuring.com/swindles-scams-kahns/
Jim Poor
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Fairfax, VA
676 Posts

Profile of Jim Poor
WOW!

What a thread. A bit scary to the new guy (Me), but thankfully, I'm not planning on making a living from developing effects.
T-RAY
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Inner circle
1539 Posts

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OK......now this is actually getting interesting! Someone from the Magic Circle in London has heard about this!!! Who needs Max Maven and the Protocols? We've got an experiment in mass confusion going on RIGHT HERE! This is like a game of psychological warfare over a kid's trick with clear cards........that's cool... in a scary way........ it really does say a lot about where magic is today (unfortunately). So, I am throwing cold water on this entire thing........I hope that wakes us up......I know it has worked for me.
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