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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Food for thought » » Definition of "Magic" (9 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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magicalaurie
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Quote:
On 2006-01-04 12:25, Vandy Grift wrote:
Quote:
On 2006-01-04 12:21, Michael Baker wrote:
In general, I think I'll enjoy watching this thread. It will be like watching someone try to nail Jell-O to the wall.
~michael


Or sewing buttons on to a custard pie.


Or sew buttons on ice cream. That's the version I've got. Smile Not mine. I borrowed it. Smile

I'd say, however, that heart and soul are involved as well. Smile
Bill Palmer
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Drew:

When you talk about discussing semantics, I hope you aren't anti-semantic. Some of my best friends are words. (MarcoM said this)

Seriously, these discussions are amusing, really. Sometimes they show that the performers are confusing the map with the territory. The magic is not the trick. The magic is what the spectator experiences. To make it really magical, it has to touch the emotions.

Now these emotions can be fear, anger, envy, greed, shame, joy, astonishment or any number of other emotions. Your job is to make these things happen.

Borodin spends a lot of time on this topic in Final Curtain.
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Marshall Thornside
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Magic is trickery.
Magic is to fool the average dumbass.
you will remember my name

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Michael Baker
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As suspected, some people are it-getters, while other contributions are fluffing the pillow... adding bulk without substance. Some, for better or worse, prove the theory of a bell curve.

Sewing buttons onto a custard pie/ice cream or nailing Jell-O to a wall... the point is identical. Attempting to define magic is both as inefficient as defining a color, and as futile as trying to keep a scream in a pickle jar.

Quote:
Sometimes they show that the performers are confusing the map with the territory.


Common and not unexpected.

The bull's eye in this target is a hole, and while they may hit close, I doubt any arrows are going to stick.

~michael
~michael baker
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Jonathan Townsend
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Quote:
On 2006-01-05 03:20, Michael Baker wrote:
As suspected, some people are it-getters, while other contributions are fluffing the pillow... adding bulk without substance. Some, for better or worse, prove the theory of a bell curve.

...Attempting to define magic is both as inefficient as defining a color, and as futile as trying to keep a scream in a pickle jar.

...The bull's eye in this target is a hole, and while they may hit close, I doubt any arrows are going to stick...


Agreed for the most part. Trying to describe magic in terms of primary sensations and actions is about as useful as trying to describe a flavor in terms of touch. Same as the bullseye analogy. The target is not on the same plane as the surface, in fact, the dimensionality of the analogy is exactly correct here. If what we are discussing is how to elicit a specific feeling ABOUT what we are perceiving, it makes no sense to fuss over exactly what we are perceiving or how we are able to offer that perception. The target is not on the surface/perception level of our mental model.

I really like the analogy of containing a scream in a pickle jar. Just that mental imagery suggests the writer "gets it". Taking a less extreme example, imagine yourself as a child wanting a cookie, and going over to the cookie jar and opening it... to hear a voice from inside say, "not yet, wait till after dinner". Got it? How do you feel about that experience? For most of us, there's the experience of magic. Nothing to do with using speakers, wires, anchoring, telepathy etc. That's just mechanics and perception.

Funny how the arrows which reach the target seem to vanish.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
JackScratch
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Marshall Thornside - If you believe that, get out of magic fast, and don't come back till you believe otherwise. You have entirely too much contempt for your audience. As a magician I have the highest respect and love for my audience. I would even go so far as to say that the only audience I don't like are the ones so intent on disbelieve that they attempt to ruin the entertainment of others.

No Bill, I'm a full supporter of the nation of vocabulary.
BlackShadow
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Magic is Fun Smile
Marshall Thornside
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Quote:
On 2006-01-05 13:09, JackScratch wrote:
Marshall Thornside - If you believe that, get out of magic fast, and don't come back till you believe otherwise. You have entirely too much contempt for your audience. As a magician I have the highest respect and love for my audience. I would even go so far as to say that the only audience I don't like are the ones so intent on disbelieve that they attempt to ruin the entertainment of others.

No Bill, I'm a full supporter of the nation of vocabulary.




first, your way out of line.
second, your way too serious.
third, I'm not a magician!

fooled you.
you will remember my name

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Liquid
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Marshall Thornside,
If you are not a magician then you should not be discussing this post. Let the pros speak. I'm sure you are great in other things on life, like swimming, and reading and all that amusing stuff. But if your not a magician then I'm sorry but you'll not be able to talk about it as you don't experience it as magicians do Smile
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Vandy Grift
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Liquid,

I'd be willing to bet she knows as much, if not wayyyyyyyyyyyy more, about magic than a large portion of the people that frequent this board. Including yourself. So chill.

Vandy
"Get a life dude." -some guy in a magic forum
Liquid
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On 2006-01-05 15:37, Vandy Grift wrote:
Including yourself. So chill.


Vandy,
You don't know me. so... chill Smile
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Michael Baker
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Quote:
On 2006-01-05 15:37, Vandy Grift wrote:
Liquid,

I'd be willing to bet she knows as much, if not wayyyyyyyyyyyy more, about magic than a large portion of the people that frequent this board. Including yourself. So chill.

Vandy


Can't say I didn't see that one coming...

~michael
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Vandy Grift
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I'm chillin like Bobby Dylan. Sorry Liquid, I didn't recognize the name. Carry on!!
"Get a life dude." -some guy in a magic forum
Michael Baker
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Quote:
On 2006-01-05 15:26, Liquid wrote:
Marshall Thornside,
If you are not a magician then you should not be discussing this post. Let the pros speak. I'm sure you are great in other things on life, like swimming, and reading and all that amusing stuff. But if your not a magician then I'm sorry but you'll not be able to talk about it as you don't experience it as magicians do Smile


Liquid - Your profile says you are a STUDENT. Let the pros speak.

Jump back in Frances... can't wait to hear your next comment!

~michael
~michael baker
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Whatever Smile
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magicalaurie
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Quote:
On 2006-01-05 03:20, Michael Baker wrote:
Sewing buttons onto a custard pie/ice cream or nailing Jell-O to a wall... the point is identical.


I knew that. Smile Smile
JackScratch
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Quote:
On 2006-01-05 15:10, Marshall Thornside wrote:

first, your way out of line.
second, your way too serious.
third, I'm not a magician!

fooled you.


I disagree with all three points. If you get to throw words around like confetti then so do I. My statement made no assumptions, it started out "If you believe that". If you do, then I stand by all I said. If you don't then you may dis reguard my statement. I'm not certain I understand how I'm "way out of line". Every word I typed is true and of benefit to anyone who thinks as you wrote. Now it is my strong suspicion that you are having a little sport at old Drew's expense, and that's cute and all, but there is a real point to be made here, and I'm making it. No magician who has contempt for his/her audience should be performing.
BlackShadow
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I agree with you audience thing, but Frances can't get out of magic if she's not in it, can she? She's got you there Smile
Jonathan Townsend
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Okay, we have an example of misdirection here, how about getting back to the magic?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
magicalaurie
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Quote:
On 2006-01-05 18:47, JackScratch wrote:
No magician who has contempt for his/her audience should be performing.


Absolutely true. Relevant point. Gotta be able to connect with your audience. That allows the magic to "go over the footlights" to quote a true magical expert indeed. Smile

I'm not going to try to define magic. There is something very unmagical Smile about attempting to provide a sort of almost scientific definition. You know magic when you FEEL it. Smile
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