We Remember The Magic Café We Remember
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The Good News! » » Things to remember, for the Gospel Magician. (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page 1~2 [Next]
drkptrs1975
View Profile
Elite user
North Eastern PA
452 Posts

Profile of drkptrs1975
As Gospel Magicians, we need to remember these things.

The First is that our main point is to minister the Gospel. The Illusions is just a way of presenting it. In the secular sense, the first is presentation to entertain, and then amaze. Here is to Presentation to minister, then entertain, and then amaze.

Remember that we are doing this for the Lord, we should not be too focus on weather or not anyone can figure out how we do what we do. True many of us, like are apart of many Magician organizations, we sign a statement, stating we agree not to reveal any secrets, true, we need to subjective to what we sign, and keep our promises we make. If someone figures it out, PRAISE GOD. But we are not to deliberately show them how it is done, and at the sametime, we are not to be too much focus on keeping people from figuring out.

Remember the main emphasise is our message, that we need to present Jesus Christ to the Lost. That is why we are here, yes the people maybe there for a magic show, and we need to give them a magic show, but we also need to make Jesus the purpose.

Also Have Fun.
Kevin Ridgeway
View Profile
V.I.P.
Indianapolis, IN & Phoenix, AZ
1824 Posts

Profile of Kevin Ridgeway
I am pretty sure I understand what you are trying to convey and agree with most of it.

However...please to anyone reading this...to not take from it that it does not matter if they figure out your trick. It DOES matter....why? Because you should be doing the best job you can...in fact we should be doing it better than the world does it. God gave us gifts....if yours is not prestidigitation...then do something else for God. He also gave his best for us....we should do no less for Him and for the great commision.

We need to bring the quality of "Gospel Magic" up to par with everything else. Maybe you don't see the eyes rolling in front of you when they hear you do gospel magic. But they do behind you.

Make what you do pleasing to God. Yes your heart needs to be in the right place...but is it truly in the right place if you don't care how good or bad you are? Who wants to listen to a bad, off pitch singer?...no one. So does it really matter what their intent is, if no one will listen?
Work on your tricks and only do what is entertaining...yes the message comes first....but if you don't build rapport with the audience, why SHOULD they listen to you?

Let's elevate our artform!

Kevin
Living Illusions
Ridgeway & Johnson Entertainment Inc

Kevin Ridgeway &
Kristen Johnson aka Lady Houdini
The World's Premier Female Escape Artist

www.LadyHoudini.com

www.livingillusions.com
Darkwing
View Profile
Inner circle
Nashville Tn
1845 Posts

Profile of Darkwing
Kevin,

I totally agree with you.

I'd like to share some thoughts along the same line and I hope I don't offend anyone with my opinions and I have been very hesitant to say anything, but here goes. I have seen several gospel magicians, clowns, balloon artist, etc. perform at regional conventions and their performances have been less than adequate. Honestly, I was sometime embarassed for the performer, because it was so bad. I was at a FCM convention with my members of my puppet team and parents and was watching a pretty well known gospel magician / clown. Parents of one of my puppet kids came to me after the show and started to make very well founded statements about the performer (both are theater majors and former members of Second City Comedy Group). They talked about lack of character development, blocking, no central theme, basically the performer was a guy in clown makeup doing magic tricks. I had to agree.

I have noticed at FCM conventions are the same folks year end and out, taking the same lectures on more and more magic tricks, buying the latest and greatest magic effects, without any thought on how it would work into what they are doing.

I am of the opinion that what ever we do for the secular audience we should be doing it at least twice as well for our gospel shows. The message should be strong, very well presented, scripture based, and above all, professional. We as gospel performers should be taking classes, reading books, and taking lectures in theater arts, presentation skills, storytelling skills, inprov, scripting, etc. We should be well practiced and rehearsed before we set foot in a gospel venue. And above all, seek guidance and influence of the Holy Sprit.

We should use and follow the examples of people like Steve Varro, Toby Travis, Duane Laflin, Brock Gill, BJ Harris, and Andre Kole, just to name a few. Read and study everything about our artform you can get your hands on and please don't just buy several effects and "just let God do the rest". I believe God expects our best and He does deserve it.

Please, your thoughts.

David Williams
drkptrs1975
View Profile
Elite user
North Eastern PA
452 Posts

Profile of drkptrs1975
Good Points, don't get me wrong, I do beleive we need to try to keep people from figuring out, but that should not the main focus. Good points.
drkptrs1975
View Profile
Elite user
North Eastern PA
452 Posts

Profile of drkptrs1975
If you remember that you are doing this for the Lord, then everything elese will fall into place.
Mtripp
View Profile
New user
99 Posts

Profile of Mtripp
Problem is, I have seen much BAD magic done by people who say "I am doing it for the Lord."

Perhaps a better focus is, IF we are doing this "for the Lord", then it should be very good because he deserves our very best....

...that means we prastice and we make sure our magic is the best it can be.
Darkwing
View Profile
Inner circle
Nashville Tn
1845 Posts

Profile of Darkwing
Amen, Mtripp, that is exactly what I am talking about.
mannimiguel
View Profile
New user
67 Posts

Profile of mannimiguel
I'm a music teacher by trade and I have always seen that the Christian artistic tends to mimic the secular world but 1) mimics badly 2) is several to ten years behind the secular world. Christians should be the BEST performing artists/musicians/magicians/storytellers/balloonists around. If you are going to do it for God, then do it right. (just my two cents)
braddini
View Profile
New user
Kissimmee,FL
63 Posts

Profile of braddini
The Bible even speaks of this. Do all things as unto the Lord.
on a different note has anyone ever heard of larence Khong?
"I ate what?"
www.bradbreaux.com
BroDavid
View Profile
Inner circle
America’s North Coast, Ohio
3178 Posts

Profile of BroDavid
I agree with mannimiguel.

The problem is not just that there are poor magicians out there. The problem is that not enough Christians take their faith seriously enough to understand that everything they do is seen by God, and they should do their best in all that they do.

But here is a conundrum for you all. What is a singer isn't very good by your standards but is doing as good as is possible with their gift. Does God judge them to be less than the performer who has been blessed with the most meolidous voice you ever heard.

Or to bring it back into the context of this thread, If a magician is doing the best that he can given the presentation and magical skills that possesses, does God rail against him, but only smile upon Copperfield and other highly gifted and skilled performers?

When we see a "bad magician", is he bad because he didn't practice enough, or because he isn't up to "our standards".

How do we judge?

I suggest that we do not. Whether or not they are doing their best is between them, and God.

BroDavid
If you stand for nothing, you will fall for anything.
Darkwing
View Profile
Inner circle
Nashville Tn
1845 Posts

Profile of Darkwing
BroDavid,

I do not disagree with your opinions. However it is one thing for us as gospel performers to see another perform and have opinions but it is another thing for the lay audience to see a bad performance and have the same opinions.

Yes we all have our unique gifts, talents, and graces and should do them to the best of our abilities but we should all be taking these gifts and talents and hon them to as near perfections as we can. A musician takes the same talents and are required to practice, practice, etc.... I know a minister who is a very gifted storyteller and his sermons are vivid, colorful and full of life. He has taken his gift to an art, but he spends a lot of time on his sermons, he takes classes on speaking, and even goes to a nationally know storytelling convention everyear to learn.

The great jazz musician, Benny Goodman, took clarinet lessons until the day he died.

I just think we should take our talents and missions even more seriously than our secular counterparts.
noumena
View Profile
Regular user
Orange County, CA
136 Posts

Profile of noumena
I agree with Living Illusions. It is sad for me to say, bue every piece of Gospel Magic I have ever seen has been both a watered down Gospel as well as poor magic. Not to mention completly out dated as a form of entertainment.

I am a full time mentalist by trade. I make my living performing a 45 min. stage act for large corporate banquets. However, I am a very serious theology student and have lectured and taught systematic theology and apologetics for several years.

When I perform at churches or at colleges for Christian organizations I perform the strongest mentalism I can and I also deliver the strongest Gospel messege I can. I don't bring one down to the other. I jump back and forth between psychological illusionist and evengelists and it is not until the end that the audience sees how they compliment each other. It is a much more contemporary approach to mentalism but also a very theologically rich messege.

I would love to see a small group of great Christian illusionists form a little think tank with a few well learned pastors or theologians to create Gospel magic, which can compete with contemporary entertainment. I would be very interested in working on that project myself with anyone seriously interested.

- Brandon Cross
Terry Holley
View Profile
Inner circle
1744 Posts

Profile of Terry Holley
Quote:
On 2006-01-31 18:19, noumena wrote:
When I perform at churches or at colleges for Christian organizations I perform the strongest mentalism I can and I also deliver the strongest Gospel messege I can. I don't bring one down to the other. I jump back and forth between psychological illusionist and evengelists and it is not until the end that the audience sees how they compliment each other. It is a much more contemporary approach to mentalism but also a very theologically rich messege.
- Brandon Cross


Brandon:

I'm interested in what makes up your performance (a rundown of effects and what you share theologically) and how you mix the two.

Terry
Co-author with illusionist Andre' Kole of "Astrology and Psychic Phenomena."
noumena
View Profile
Regular user
Orange County, CA
136 Posts

Profile of noumena
In 45 min. I perform 5 strong pieces. My show features mostly signature pieces, so I hope you understand why I wouldn't want to share that in an open forum. However, I would be very open, as I suggested in my above post, with a small think tank of serious Christian performers.

Theologically, I would follow in the footsteps of Paul and Augustine, Luther and Francis Shaeffer and Van Till in their message of the cross. The presentation is divided into Law and Gospel. I confront popular slogans of postmodern culture such as relativism about truth and ethics as well as religious pluralism. I also take some time to talk about popular critiques of Christianity such as evolution and the problem of evil. The summery of this half is the absurdity of life without the cross of Christ.

The second half of the message is a biblically rich understanding of the theology of the cross. I answer common misunderstanding about what faith is and is not as well as what grace is and is not. I also offer corrections to bad popular contemporary Christian slogans concerning the free gift of salvation. I do not do an altar call of any sort for biblical reasons. I end with offering an understanding that God has reconciled the world (you personally) to Himself and that all you should do is receive His grace.

I try to make the message rich in bliblical quotations, apologetics and theology. But this is hopefully done in a windsome and entartaining manner. There is a lot of comedy as well as effects. Thanks sort of a simple bare bones answer. I hope that’s what you where looking for.

- Brandon Cross
Terry Holley
View Profile
Inner circle
1744 Posts

Profile of Terry Holley
Brandon:

Do you separate the effects from the message? I am thinking in terms of what Andre Kole does where he presents his illusion show, and then after the illusions he presents his message with one magic effect, as opposed to most gospel magicians who attempt to integrate the majority of their magic with the message.

Terry
Co-author with illusionist Andre' Kole of "Astrology and Psychic Phenomena."
noumena
View Profile
Regular user
Orange County, CA
136 Posts

Profile of noumena
No, my presentation isn't like that. There are a few pieces that work as illustrations, but each effect as meaning that is either overt or interprited by the message that is woven through the whole show. There is an theam for the show and the mentalism is merely a tool to express what that theam is.

What I do stay away from is making some prop stand for Jesus or sin or something like that. I think that insults our audiences intelliegence as well as the art and more importantly the message of the cross. Hoever, what an effect symbolizes can be nrough into the message in a very meaningful way.

I think this is a very dificult line we walk when doing "Gospel Magic." I think the most important thing to decide from the offset is if you are going to be an evangelist who uses illusion or an illusionist who has a bit of evangelism in your show. For me, when I perform at Christian events I am an eveangelist who uses mentalism to make certain points and to entertain a bit.

I hope that helps answer your question.

- Brandon Cross
Shadow
View Profile
Regular user
Akron, OH
171 Posts

Profile of Shadow
I think the most important thing to remember is that you are performing for an audience of one, God, and the people are mere observers. When I lecture I try to stress the fact that when you needed a savior God sent his best, He deserves the best you can give him!

When we take the stage and perform a well thought out and well practiced show, the Holy Spirit will use it and bless both the viewer and the performer.

Nothing upsets me more than someone who just buys tricks and fumbles through a performance and then tries to justify it by “It doesn’t have to be great, God can use it”

Please, if you are not willing to put in the work to do it well, let someone else do it.

Just my 2 cents worth of rambling
Darkwing
View Profile
Inner circle
Nashville Tn
1845 Posts

Profile of Darkwing
Shadow,

You have hit the nail on the head. I'm hoping that was what I was trying to convey.
Mtripp
View Profile
New user
99 Posts

Profile of Mtripp
Quote:
On 2006-01-29 23:07, BroDavid wrote:
How do we judge?

I suggest that we do not. Whether or not they are doing their best is between them, and God.

BroDavid



This is common thought, and extends to many things, ie, who are YOU to judge me. If we follow that, we are bound to say nothing about anything.

However, there is a very big difference between judgement and discernment.

In a Christian context, discernment is perception in the absence of judgement with a view to obtaining spiritual direction and understanding..

As such, I have enough discernment to know the difference between "doing your best" and being a duffer. It also calls to mind Sean Connery's comment on "doing your best" in the movie "The Rock".

So, I will continue to be decerning in all things...
Magic Arty
View Profile
Elite user
metro Atlanta
443 Posts

Profile of Magic Arty
Do you think the verse on speaking with grace, and kindness to one another may apply here?
I sense a bit of spite in the tone of the last post, or am I off?

Arthur
atsmagic
Arthur Atsma

Feeling real happy now!
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The Good News! » » Things to remember, for the Gospel Magician. (0 Likes)
 Go to page 1~2 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2019 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.16 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL