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mota Inner circle 1658 Posts |
I used to have the game.
There are no gaffs needed. It is a pattern that takes some practice but after you have practiced you can do it regularly. There are also hard, medium, and soft boards. These terms refer to the size of the discs actually, with hard being very slightly smaller than soft. The hard board is difficult even for the worker. Still, you won't beat a guy at his own game. If he has to, he will just shake the board and say, there's red showing. You are with your girl at the carnival and the operator has all his friends. What are you going to do about it? If you can make enough of a stink without being intimidated or terrified away they might throw you some stock plush...it doesn't happen real regular. |
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jeremysweiss Special user 742 Posts |
References:
The only that I have found is in The Bunco Book (published by Sid Rander--Houdini Collector) and Simon Lovell's Billion Dollar Bunko (page 118). I am looking for more. It is not in: Darwin Ortiz Gambling Scams (unless I overlooked it). Karl Fulves' Swindles & Cheats Road Hustler American COnfidence Man Flim Flam Games You Can't Lose Wanna Bet?
The Shock Doc
<BR>www.TheShockDocShow.com <BR> <BR> <BR>http://ballycast.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/ballycast-024-2009-03-21.mp3 <BR> <BR>"....Jeremy Weiss has the greatest card trick of ALL TIME!"--Jamie D. Grant. <BR>Start listening to iTricks 11/12/09 |
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Police Magician Special user Georgia 648 Posts |
Bruce Walstad co-authored "Keeping Carnies Honest". There are some more books by members of Professionals Against Confidence Crime that mention this game.
Glenn
Glenn Hester
P.O. Box 3095 Brunswick, Ga. 31521 912-571-8071 www.policemagic.com https://www.facebook.com/PoliceMagic https://www.facebook.com/groups/235078277679470/ |
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IanKendall Special user Edinburgh 571 Posts |
The only place I've seen it mentioned is in passing in Simon's book. I understand that Martin Gardner gave a more mathematical approach in one of his books, but I've not seen it. My set came with no instructions, only a diagram.
As far as I know I have the only video instruction. Take care, Ian |
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jeremysweiss Special user 742 Posts |
The Bunco Book has a very nice discussiong of the fabric method. I have a board flat joint, as do most. Simon's book covers both types, but does not have the details of The Real Work. Ian's video may be best for those interested.
The Shock Doc
<BR>www.TheShockDocShow.com <BR> <BR> <BR>http://ballycast.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/ballycast-024-2009-03-21.mp3 <BR> <BR>"....Jeremy Weiss has the greatest card trick of ALL TIME!"--Jamie D. Grant. <BR>Start listening to iTricks 11/12/09 |
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silverking Inner circle 4574 Posts |
I just returned from a very legitimate local fair where the "spot the spot" game had been re-named "The Happy Face Game".
Well, it was un-gaffed, and the line up to the five stations was constant. Of course the Carney would drop the discs to cover the spot every time, but in the 15 minutes I stood there watching, not a single soul got it right. As a matter of fact, none of them were even close. The Carney was amazing in his constant ability to drop them. He did it quickly which made it look even easier. These old cons entertain me to no end. The folks were absolutely convinced as they stepped up after watching another sucker drop the discs that they would be able to get it right. One guy stood at the same station for the entire 15 minutes I was there, and dropped three bucks a shot to a total of about $40.00 to get a $10.00 toy for his girlfriend. I loved every minute watching "spot the spot", it was the highlight of the fair for me, then my daughter could watch no more and we went on all the rides. By the way, Nick Trost in his hard to find book "Expert Gambling Tricks" talks about "Spot the Spot" and says in an ungimmicked game, the odds against the sucker each time they try are 242 to 1, or about 99% in favour of the game! |
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Moderncelt Veteran user Twin Cities MN 343 Posts |
Hi folks, I'm on Ian's virtual sessions and I asked there, but casting a wide net in hopes of getting an answer. What would the size ratio of spot:disks be? I want to use CDs as the disks and paint a larger spot to cover? I figure that CDs are identical and plentiful, I wanted to try using them.
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Dave V Inner circle Las Vegas, NV 4824 Posts |
Ian's notes on Cover the Spot has info on using CD's. If I recall though it was for the CD to be the big spot and it doesn't sound like what you want. He does give the dimensions of the smaller discs so it's a simple matter to do some math to come up with the ratio.
No trees were killed in the making of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
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Moderncelt Veteran user Twin Cities MN 343 Posts |
Nope, I wanted to use the CD as small spots. Ok so check my math:
A standard CD is 120mm in diameter and Ian's spots to cover are 74.25mm so the ratio should be 1.6161:1. Therefore using CDs as disks the spot should be 193.93mm or 7.635 inchers? Does that sound right? |
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srayproctor New user 84 Posts |
Moderncelt,
Your math is correct. However, where did you get the ratio of 1.6161:1? And, how many discs do you intend to use to cover the spot? Scott |
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Moderncelt Veteran user Twin Cities MN 343 Posts |
Scot
120(size of a standard cd)/74.25 (size of the spots in Ian's tutorial to cover a cd)= 1.6161~ so the larger spot is 1.6161 times larger than any one of the individual spots. So I just multiplied 120 times the ratio and got my number. To answer your question, I plan on using the standard 5 disks to cover. |
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nostromo New user Pensacola, Fla 79 Posts |
Yup- that's what I got, too, using the Montana state law that the dropped discs be no less than 64% of the larger disk. I forget where, but I read somewhere that complete coverage is impossible with a ratio less than about %61.
Problem with using CD's is that they are VERY light and don't drop straight even though there's a hole through the middle. Not as easy to 'control' compared to the heavier zinc disks. Another problem is that the body of the CD's are clear plastic, so that the edges are clear and make it confusing to see exactly where the CD edge touches the spot. "I got all the red covered". "No you don;t I can still see red". Rrrrrr. I gave up on CD labels since they don't go all the way to the edge and used spray paint instead. Finally, a minor consideration when dropping is that the CD's are as thick or thicker than the metal discs yet their diameter is much smaller, so there's a bit more 'lift angle' when they are atop the other CD's. Greater tendency to 'bounce' lower along that plane when dropping, or 'slide' when other discs drop. There are several carnival game books that include "The Scientific Circles" as well as weight guessing, shooting waters, balloon darts, razzle games, screw pool, etc. Try an Amazon search. Love these carnival games! I helped Bruce Walstad at SEAM and was able to proudly tell the folks buying his lecture materialsm (like the Carnival Games book) that my six year old was able to win three NICE stuffed animals by HIMSELF at Six Flags Atlanta just by Dad knowing which games to play and how. With practice, I'd play 'Cover the Spot' (on a WOOD or METAL board) or the 'Pop Bottle lift' if the prizes and price were right, as opposed to almost any other game on a carnival midway. Or any of the games where you are competing against other players and you just wait for few players. Or any of the 'hanky panks; like 'Pitch till you win' or 'Duck Pond' for the little ones who are just hapy t oplay anything and win a prize- even if it's slum worth far less than the cost of play. Forget the peach baskets, ring toss, dime toss, flukey ball, phhhtt. No chance. The pattern that seems to work is: - Top of the large circle first with the two 'pivot points' (where disc edges touch the large spot's border) at exactly the midpoints of the first disc. - Next disc is to one side with the upper 'pivot point' being where the first disc touches the spot's edge, and the second point along the lower edge of the first disc at a point just past the midpoint of the center of the spot. - Third disc is a mirror image of the first - you've got it right when the overlapping edges of the second and third discs form an 'ellipse' in the middle of the spot, kinda like this (). - Fourth disc below the second or third disc with the main 'pivot point' being where the upper disc touches the spot edge then trying to line up at TWO points: as far along the spot edge and as far along the upper disc as possible. Where you cover as much real estate as possible. (Does that make sense?) - The last disc trying to cover as much red as possible. Break a leg! |
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nostromo New user Pensacola, Fla 79 Posts |
Yup- that's what I got, too, using the Montana state law that the dropped discs be no less than 64% of the larger disk. I forget where, but I read somewhere that complete coverage is impossible with a ratio less than about %61.
Problem with using CD's is that they are VERY light and don't drop straight even though there's a hole through the middle. Not as easy to 'control' compared to the heavier zinc disks. Another problem is that the body of the CD's are clear plastic, so that the edges are clear and make it confusing to see exactly where the CD edge touches the spot. "I got all the red covered". "No you don;t I can still see red". Rrrrrr. I gave up on CD labels since they don't go all the way to the edge and used spray paint instead. Finally, a minor consideration when dropping is that the CD's are as thick or thicker than the metal discs yet their diameter is much smaller, so there's a bit more 'lift angle' when they are atop the other CD's. Greater tendency to 'bounce' lower along that plane when dropping, or 'slide' when other discs drop. There are several carnival game books that include "The Scientific Circles" as well as weight guessing, shooting waters, balloon darts, razzle games, screw pool, etc. Try an Amazon search. Love these carnival games! I helped Bruce Walstad at SEAM and was able to proudly tell the folks buying his lecture materialsm (like the Carnival Games book) that my six year old was able to win three NICE stuffed animals by HIMSELF at Six Flags Atlanta just by Dad knowing which games to play and how. With practice, I'd play 'Cover the Spot' (on a WOOD or METAL board) or the 'Pop Bottle lift' if the prizes and price were right, as opposed to almost any other game on a carnival midway. Or any of the games where you are competing against other players and you just wait for few players. Or any of the 'hanky panks; like 'Pitch till you win' or 'Duck Pond' for the little ones who are just hapy t oplay anything and win a prize- even if it's slum worth far less than the cost of play. Forget the peach baskets, ring toss, dime toss, flukey ball, phhhtt. No chance. The pattern that seems to work is: - Top of the large circle first with the two 'pivot points' (where disc edges touch the large spot's border) at exactly the midpoints of the first disc. - Next disc is to one side with the upper 'pivot point' being where the first disc touches the spot's edge, and the second point along the lower edge of the first disc at a point just past the midpoint of the center of the spot. - Third disc is a mirror image of the first - you've got it right when the overlapping edges of the second and third discs form an 'ellipse' in the middle of the spot, kinda like this (). - Fourth disc below the second or third disc with the main 'pivot point' being where the upper disc touches the spot edge then trying to line up at TWO points: as far along the spot edge and as far along the upper disc as possible. Where you cover as much real estate as possible. (Does that make sense?) - The last disc trying to cover as much red as possible. Break a leg! |
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wally Inner circle 1828 Posts |
Where can I buy this game cover the spot. or how do I make it. thanks.
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gump New user 58 Posts |
Here's one place that sells a version of the "Cover the Spot" game:
http://www.jacksgames.com/coverthespot.html |
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tim_mantis Regular user UK 117 Posts |
I just saw a cover the spot operator at Hull Fair (supposedly Europe's largest travelling fair) last night using a really nice setup with a smiley face to cover with metal discs. There was a light under the face just in case anybody got too close to winning the £20 prize (it cost £2 per try); if the gaps weren't visible, the operator would turn on the light and reveal the tiny spots of light shining through the gaps.
Anybody seen this before? I'd love to get one! |
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MagicSanta Inner circle Northern Nevada 5841 Posts |
Man....that is a guy who doesn't want to lose...
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DStachowiak Inner circle Baltimore, MD 2158 Posts |
Darwin Ortiz's "Gmbling Scams", p.186, has a discussion of "Spot the Spot" operated as an alibi store, ungaffed but next to impossible to win unless it's all you do all day.
Walter Gibson's "Bunko Book" was originally sold with a companion booklet on Carnival Gaffs (I'm not sure, but the title may have actually been "Carnival Gaffs", I just remember it having a yellow cover) in which he describes gaffing the game by having the red spots painted on oilcloth, which hung down over the back of the counter and was tacked to a wooden bar, The game operator could put his foot on the bar and stretch the spots minutely, making them impossible to cover. "Scarne's Complete Guide to Gambling" describes the ungaffed version, reaching basically the same conclusion that Darwin Ortiz does. Simon Lovell's "Billion Dollar Bunko Book", (also available in paperback as "How to Cheat at Practically Everything") describes the game gaffed with different sized or oddly shaped disks. Obviously, many game operators have shown a great deal of ingenuity in their approach to this game, imparting their own twists.
Woke up.
Fell out of bed. Dragged a comb across m' head. |
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sethb Inner circle The Jersey Shore 2719 Posts |
Quote:
On 2007-10-14 12:43, tim_mantis wrote: I just saw a cover the spot operator at Hull Fair (supposedly Europe's largest travelling fair) last night using a really nice setup with a smiley face to cover with metal discs. There was a light under the face just in case anybody got too close to winning the £20 prize (it cost £2 per try); if the gaps weren't visible, the operator would turn on the light and reveal the tiny spots of light shining through the gaps. Wow, talk about "never giving a sucker an even break," this setup takes the cake!! SETH
"Watch the Professor!!" -- Al Flosso (1895-1976)
"The better you are, the closer they watch" -- Darwin Ortiz, STRONG MAGIC |
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tim_mantis Regular user UK 117 Posts |
Quote:
On 2007-11-02 09:51, sethb wrote: Yeah, that's what I thought initially, but thinking about it, this is does make sense if the game is in a dark corner of a fairground as this was. The gaps by which the punters lose are often really tiny so this is just a nice way of showing them up! Tim |
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