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Pete Biro 1933 - 2018 18558 Posts |
Cheating is stealing. Stealing is a crime. Gambling is legal.
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
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sodman12 Special user raleigh 601 Posts |
Playing poker in states that consider it gambling and where gambling is illegal is also a crime.
you can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all the time but never all of the people all the time.
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
It's worth pointing out that the MIT team was not cheating. Card counting is not illegal; it's just something that, if you do well, will get you barred.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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sodman12 Special user raleigh 601 Posts |
That is correct ortiz used to use their same methods
The only reason I loosen my morals for poker is becase it not like its a reg. game of chess. Its an illegeal gambling game even if it is on tv 20 times a day. People tend to forget that people are putting there money up and its really the person of lies and tricks people most often who wins the most money. I don't think what I do puts me at the same level as some hustler who forces people, whether they know it or not to gamble away their lifesavings or a great portion of it.
you can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all the time but never all of the people all the time.
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BAH1313 Elite user Ohio 445 Posts |
Sodman, the sad truth is you are probably full of crap. If in fact, you actually did this and now are bragging about it. You my friend will have a very short and perhaps painful career. It only takes getting caught once. Imagine the friends you will lose when it does happen, and imagine the beating you'll probably take.
If you were any good at this, you definately wouldnt be braggin bout it. For the benefit of doubt,If you're young and foolish, you should know that you NEVER play and talk, let alone HUSTLE and sing. Take it from an old pro. It never pays. Remember, if you want adrenaline to pay the bills go be a stunt man. Never cheat your friends. If you do, then NEVER TALK about it. You'll just lose friends in the process.
I am truly blessed to have a job where people are laughing all the time and everyone believes in magic....Come to think of it, I'm blessed to even have a job.
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sodman12 Special user raleigh 601 Posts |
I'm not bragging and I'm not cheating my friends.
But thanks for the advice
you can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all the time but never all of the people all the time.
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The Dowser Special user Canada 763 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-01-26 22:02, LobowolfXXX wrote: The M.I.T. team was only mentioned in this thread as one of the reasons for the boom in gaming popularity , along with televised poker and movies like Shade,Rounders etc. Placing a wager on the fall of cards may or may not be morally wrong ... but there is a general understanding between all involved that they either have an equal chance or the difference is a known quantity(as in the casino edge) . The understanding also exists that the rules will be adhered to (fair play) . If you cheat in a money game there is no " may or may not "about it...it is definitely wrong . I shudder at the ridiculous prospect of someone trying to explain " I wasn't really cheating , the deck I switched in was in an unkown order and I was just honing my chops!" GOOD LUCK with that. ... your are taking a major risk without the possibility of any return , this is what any professional gambler (cheater or otherwise) will tell you is a bad wager . Dowser |
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card cheat Elite user 426 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-01-26 16:35, sodman12 wrote: After much banter and irrelevant response in this thread, it occured to me that nobody here answered any of the questions that were posed in the post that originated it. To ask the question about getting caught, more specifically asking one who has been to relate the tale to a mixed and public audience is an audacious move. You are asking someone to recount a story based on an experience that could have been a very tragic one. Furthermore, this question about getting caught working a game was posed to a bunch of magicians who pass burdensome judgement on the mere mention of going for the money. I think that you are searching for an answer to a tough question and decreasing your chances of finding it by looking in the wrong place. It just so happens that I have never been caught cheating. I would like to think that this is due to prudent and judicious employment of the moves that I make, and the marks that I pick rather than it being a result of being a slick mechanic. Anyone can learn to do the moves and then perfect them (maybe even perfect them to a point where they are not useful any longer) but it takes a good cheat to know when to use them. To answer the question point blank, No. I cannot relate to you a story of getting caught because I never have been. But I was playing in a B&M cardroom when I did see one of the best escapes from a beating that I have ever seen. It went something like this: At a table that I was not playing at (I was at another) all of the sudden, chips, cards and dirty words flew in all directions when a player was caught cheating. This player, the moron that he was, (is that flaming?) was playing heavy in a 7 handed game of Hold' Em and pegged when he was mucking in his card. By the time he was wrestled to his feet he already had his cell phone in his hands and was yelling into it, "If I am not out in 3 minutes, call the cops!" By the time the phone was swiped from his hand, it was too late. This cheat had already given the impression that he had an outside man who was going to call the local authorities if the time limit expired before he walked out of the lobby of the high-rise building in which this club was nested at the time. Whether or not this kid called the cops, I don't know and I don't even know if he had an outside man at all. As the phone was being wrenched from his hands (flip phone) it was broken so, that was the end of that. The cheat, when asked what the hell was going on replied, "I am not here alone. I have a man outside and a partner in this room. If you lay a hand on me, there will be consequences that follow your decision to do so. Do you really want ME to go to the cops and tell them where I sustained the injuries? You'll be shut down!" Needless to say, the guy walked, I repeat: walked, out of there. Yes, he left behind his "pretty money" and his reputation as an honest player but not any blood or tears (probably some sweat though!)The games were shut down for about 2 weeks, give or take a few days, and it did take some time for the atmosphere to return to normal in that room. Quote:
On 2006-01-26 16:35, sodman12 wrote: This question is also pretty much not going to get the reactions that you are looking for. What game(s) do you play? Why are you trying to take advantage? What is your style of play? There are just too many qualifying questions that would first need be answered prior to even so much as opining about how you should approach moving in your game(s). If you want to cheat, go for it.Don't listen to all of those who will judge you for your decisions. Those same people who will tell you that cheating is wrong would also love to sit across the table from a lesser opponent who would just dump their stacks all the same. If you have made the decision to become a cheat then you don't need to hear why it is right or wrong from anyone. You should make a decision and stop trying to live vicariously through the risks taken by others. Card Cheat |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
I have never seen anyone being caught cheating, that I recall, except for a gin player who I used play but I allowed him to get away with it because he used to loose. I have seen guys get seriously hurt for pulling srokes in poker games that do not amount to cheating.
Doc has been caught I think and I think told the story. As I recall, I think he was set up and came close to getting killed.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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bishthemagish Inner circle 6013 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-01-26 20:16, scorch wrote: I think that this should be explored if a magician really wants to test the moves play cards with other magicians. Set the table rules and play in a SAFE GAME then no one can get hurt! If people cheat in a card game or any other kind of game and then they get caught that is the risk that they take. In a casino it is a felony and they will get a record if it goes to court. Frank Garcia used to say that magicians should not even play cards. I used to but I don't play cards anymore. Frank Garcia used to say play cards and win they will question your honesty, play cards and lose they question your ability. Magicians lose both ways. In our history there are many magicians that would play cards and had the ability to cheat. Louis Zingone, Manuel the master of the all mighty dollar who did a coin act was very good with cards and did play cards. Louis Zingone was one of the first magicians that could do a center deal. It has nothing to do with the nerve not to do it has to do with the NEED. Magicians have no NEED to cheat at the card table. If Manuel or Zingone cheated and were caught their reputations as magicians would have suffered as professional magicians. Why take the risk if there is no NEED?
Glenn Bishop Cardician
Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs |
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sodman12 Special user raleigh 601 Posts |
To set the record straight I am not playing in high stakes home games and don't really plan on it. Nor do I want to play in a B&M and where I am moving. I am simply not that kinda guy. I don't like taking risks. the only game that I have moved in was one with a partner and where there was little or no risk involved since if I got any heat I would still win becasue the players were so bad.
Thanks for the stories I just bought I few books with some good stories.
you can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all the time but never all of the people all the time.
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bishthemagish Inner circle 6013 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-01-27 11:08, card cheat wrote: Lucky but the RISK is the same in every game a sharp cheats in. Each game the same RISK! Quote:
On 2006-01-27 11:08, card cheat wrote: Right and wrong is only a point of view. My best advice is to listen to what is inside you. Is the RISK worth it? Getting caught is a serious RISK and people get smarter about such things every day. The problem with most sharps is that they get greedy and try to win to much to often. Plus it is a fact of this kind of a life that no one is perfect and sooner or later there is the risk of blowing a move. The risk of getting caught is with you every game you cheat! Magicians do the same moves and get the money without the RISK!
Glenn Bishop Cardician
Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs |
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card cheat Elite user 426 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-01-27 13:37, bishthemagish wrote: Mmmhmm. I beg to differ. Some games are MUCH riskier to move in than others! Quote:
On 2006-01-27 13:37, bishthemagish wrote: That's deep.... Quote:
On 2006-01-27 13:37, bishthemagish wrote: Huh? Oh! Right! It says, wait - what's that again? Could you speak up please, self? Oh, now I got it. My self says, "What is Bish talking about?" So, Bish, what the hell are you talking about? My self wants to know! Quote:
On 2006-01-27 13:37, bishthemagish wrote: In some cases, yes! Why, you want in? Quote:
On 2006-01-27 13:37, bishthemagish wrote: I would liken a statement of this caliber to someone approaching a smoker and saying, "You know, those things will kill 'ya." Bish, don't you think that I have thought about these things? Quote:
On 2006-01-27 13:37, bishthemagish wrote: Now, THIS I agree with. Fortunately, I don't fall into this category. Quote:
On 2006-01-27 13:37, bishthemagish wrote: Thanks, thanks alot. Again, I don't know where I would be without you to guide me. Quote:
On 2006-01-27 13:37, bishthemagish wrote: Man, am I getting charged by the hour for such counseling? You should really charge for advice like this, Bish. Quote:
On 2006-01-27 13:37, bishthemagish wrote: Woops! No they don't, and you know it. At least you should know by now that the moves used to get the money under-fire are NOT the same moves used to get the money "under-cover." The moves that get the money under-fire aren't flashy enough to be used "under-cover." CC |
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Greg Hues Regular user Canada 143 Posts |
As a rule, I don't play cards for money. Except with my closest friends and they trust me not to cheat them, and I never would. I am very careful not to do anything that would even look suspicious just in case, because I would not want them to ever doubt my honesty.
But, I still had the "Cheating" bug, caught it right after the magic bug. I saw Rounders, Shade and the Sting all in the same month and that did me in. So to satisfy the urges, me and a few magician friends do something like what Tom said in a post above. We get together and play what we call "Cheat Poker" for candy or whatever. It still plays exactly like a normal game of hold'em. Except, that everyone is supposed to cheat as much as they can to win without getting caught. If you catch someone cheating they loose all their chips that are in play. It is fun, you get to practice moves and everyone involved understands that there will be cheating. I still get the thrill (maybe not as intense, but a thrill none the less) and the most I loose is a bag of wine gums instead of possibly my life. I guess I should note, even if I am playing a for fun game of regular poker, I still will not cheat, because that ruins the sport of it. I will only cheat when that is the understood method for winning
Regards,
Greg Hues |
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ImpromptuBoy Special user Toronto, Canada 898 Posts |
Cheating is illegal and wrong. I have cheated in card games before, but I no longer do it. Now, I only practice cheating techniques for demonstrations when I do shows. But, I don't expose the techniques. I demonstrate them, and let the audience be astonished by what they had witnessed. Never, ever expose what you have actually done. That would only ruin your hard work. Just say that you're going to show them a crooked gambling or cheating demonstration. Do not say "I bottom dealt or second dealt or stacked the deck, because by now they are probably mad at you. Cheating is advantage play. It could help you, and it could bust you really bad. But looking at the positive and negative sides is not enough. Looking at the overall impact is the most important thing to look at. So based on what you've read about cheating, you decide what you're going to do. Cheating is designed for the actual games, but demonstrating the techniques without exposing them, in a show, is a very cool way of showing what crooked gambling is about.
With respect, Michael |
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bishthemagish Inner circle 6013 Posts |
Card Cheat I am not knocking you or your chosen lifestyle or why you do it or how skilled you are. If a magician wants to cheat at a card game and they have the skill it is up to them if the want to travel down that road.
If THEY choose to travel down that road there IS A RISK. It doesn't matter how SKILLED a card sharp is or how often they play. THE RISK IS THE SAME if they play in a game and are playing for pennies or a thousand dollars. In a small game or a big money game the RISK of getting caught is the same every time you sit down at a table. I suggest you set your personal ego aside and look at it from the point of view of the kid that asked the question. Your best advice is to tell this kid who you never met and you do not have any idea of his skill level to go for it. I don't agree with that advice. My advice is to tell kids that want to cheat and are interested in the fiction or perhaps romantic world of cheating that there is a risk when you choose. As a parent I teach my kids every day that the choice of right and wrong is a CHOICE. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time! Don't take the risk if you can't afford to lose!
Glenn Bishop Cardician
Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs |
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bishthemagish Inner circle 6013 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-01-27 15:15, card cheat wrote: I don't know what moves you are talking about but If your talking about the three "B" I use those moves in almost every show. Briefs, Bottoms - and B#lls. And I would also add second dealing and punch work. I think I know a little more about cheating moves at the card table than you think I do!
Glenn Bishop Cardician
Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs |
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Mr. Z Special user 818 Posts |
The fact that you're consulting the Café of all places for cheating advice says it all.
"...if you have to say you is, you ain't."--Jimmy Hoffa
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card cheat Elite user 426 Posts |
Mr. Z
I am not the one consulting anyone for for cheating advice! Bish, I bet you DO know more about card cheating than I think that you do. But, then again, that is not saying much at all... I am not saying that the kid should go out and bust a move the first time he gets into a game. BTW - how do you know how old he/she is? Anyway, all I said is that sitting on your duff and asking about cheating experiences does not a cheater make. If he wants to be a cheat then he must learn first that all of the research, study and practice in the world isn't going to earn him the title until he goes for the money. |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
Cardsharp’s have acquired a fictitious reputation for extraordinary courage and bravery , immensely exaggerated by themselves. The truth is you need no more courage than you would if you were a shoplifter. I know as I have done both.
:)
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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