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Ian Broadmore
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There is an interesting article on James Randi here: rense.com
J ack Galloway
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Well it looks like I have a bit of company.

Even Ray Hyman, of CSICOP thinks the JREF is rigged.

Ian you made my day thanks for the link.

http://www.rense.com/general69/randi.htm

Jack

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Ian Broadmore
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Your welcome!
Todd Robbins
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Ray Hyman thinks that the Randi challenge is rigged. That's funny. Forget the psychic stuff. Comedy is your forte. Ray will get a kick out of all this.
Joshua Quinn
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Funny, when I talked to Mr. Hyman two days ago at Randi's conference, he didn't mention that to me. I wish this had been posted before then, as I would surely have asked him.

PS -- Todd Robbins, in addition to being an outstanding magician, is also a fine auctioneer.
Every problem contains the seeds of its own solution. Unfortunately every problem also contains the seeds of an infinite number of non-solutions, so that first part really isn't super helpful.
Todd Robbins
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Quinn,
Don't trust those skeptics. They believe in that rational thinking stuff. It's very overated and not needed these days.

Rev. T.L. Robbins
Joshua Quinn
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Rev. Robbins, I object to your obvious use of humor, which is in direct violation of the Codes and Creeds of Embittered, Joyless Skeptics. I intend to report your insubordinate behavior to your local chapter at once.
Every problem contains the seeds of its own solution. Unfortunately every problem also contains the seeds of an infinite number of non-solutions, so that first part really isn't super helpful.
J ack Galloway
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Todd and Quinn,

I did not write the article I was but commenting on it.

Are you inferring that the article is incorrect or a fabrication?

Could it be the skeptic in question holds the same skeptical belief I do?

Jack

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jimtron
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From the JREF forums:

Quote:
Quote:
Ray Hyman, a leading Fellow of CSICOP, has pointed out that Randi's challenge is illegitimate from a scientific standpoint. "Scientists don't settle issues with a single test ... Proof in science happens through replication."

Total misdirection. Randi has never claimed that the challenge was scientific. Indeed, it is much less rigorous than science. That should make it easer to win, not harder. But it is also true that depending on the test, the challenge does require replication. Dowsers must hit their target a statistically significant number of times. Psychics must guess the right card a significant number of times. It may not be science, but remember, one of the key rules is that the tester agree that it is a fair test. I suspect that few applicants can demonstrate that it is an unfair test because "it is not scientific enough". Usually it is far too scientific for their tastes.

But this brings up a funny paradox. The challenge is criticized on both ends, by people like Hyman who say it is not scientific enough and by paranormal believers who say that science "can't prove everything". So make up your minds, critics. Is it too scientific or not scientific enough?


For those who believe Randi's test to be bogus: Why not take the challenge, follow the rules, and document it every step of the way. Then demonstrate your paranormal power under test conditions to another independent party. Publish your evidence that you have the paranormal power, and the evidence that Randi's challenge is bogus. I would urge anyone to do this. Randi will be discredited, and you will make headlines with proof of paranormal power.
J ack Galloway
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Or do as I have and set up your own challenge to prove your point.
(If Randi can we all can. And I am using my own cash.)


Jack

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Tony Iacoviello
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Sorry Jack, I cannot do what Randi does. I'm still performing, and some people like me... When I get to the point that I cannot perform, maybe I'll think about exploiting people who do what I used to do. Maybe not. <G>
Joshua Quinn
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Quote:
On 2006-01-31 15:13, J ack Galloway wrote:
Are you inferring that the article is incorrect or a fabrication?


I was inferring, and now I'm saying outright, that I believe that the statement, "Even Ray Hyman, of CSICOP thinks the JREF is rigged," is, in all likelihood, about as wrong as it could be.

I'll also add that I believe the article is chock full of statements that are about as wrong as they could be. And much as I would love to hang around and engage in hours of pointless pedantry over the matter, I've got to go write to my new friend Dr. Murray Gell-Mann, Nobel Laureate in Physics, who I stumped with an impossible object I created.
Every problem contains the seeds of its own solution. Unfortunately every problem also contains the seeds of an infinite number of non-solutions, so that first part really isn't super helpful.
jimtron
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Can someone cite a source where Hyman calls Rand's challenge "rigged"? I'd like to find out whether he actually said that or not.
JackScratch
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You do all understand that it is impossible to prove non existance. Don't you?
J ack Galloway
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Tony,

My challenge is to Randi.

Jim,

Follow the link up the page a bit.

Quinn,

Tell Murray I said hello.

Jack

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Todd Robbins
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J ack/Jim,
I went to the JREF page and read Randi's response. I am outraged at what he wrote. How dare he refer to what you as trying to do as a "carnival approach". That is such an insult to carnivals. Thank you for putting that on your website. I will let Randi know of my displeasure. I am sending negative thoughts right now.
jimtron
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Quote:
Jim,

Follow the link up the page a bit.


I found the page. I didn't find: 1) a direct quote where Hyman called Randi's challenge "rigged." 2) The source of the Hyman quotes about Randi.


-Jim
entity
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Jack: I think you've mis-read the original story. The Writer used a deceptive dodge, at one point quoting Hyman in quotation marks, and then in the same paragraph using the term "rigged" in quotation marks, although not directly quoting Hyman.

The inference is that both quotes come from Hyman, which they do not.

- entity
J ack Galloway
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Entity,

Thanks for the correction.

However I still hold with my thoughts on the guy.

Todd, is right to be upset.

Heck he should be.


Jack


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Dannydoyle
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I was about to point out the same thing, thanks entity.

BUT J ack I enjoy the way you set up your own test, then pass it, and claim it as some sort of paranormal anything.

come on man according to those rules I could set up my own rules, become the heavyweight boxing champion of the world and claim validity to the title.

Come on it has no merit other than entertainment my friend, please stop trying to use it as some sort of proof.

J ack you will make far more headlines really doing paranormal things, rather than duplicating them!
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
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