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entity Inner circle Canada 5060 Posts |
We agree: Exposure of Magicians' methods are bad, no matter who does it. Does this mean that Randi's entire life's work is negated? Or that anything he has to say or anything he does now should be ignored? That would be foolish.
Randi felt a greater good was being served. We disagree. Life goes on. How have any of us truly been affected by this? - entity
email: tomebaxter@icloud.com
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Tony Iacoviello Eternal Order 13151 Posts |
No, as I did state previously, he was one of the leading magicians during the 1970s.
I paid to go see him. The video I was writing about was the NOVA tape. People are remembered for their worst, not their best. It is not right, but that is what happens. Tony |
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jimtron Inner circle 2039 Posts |
This video?
Tony, do you think that this PBS show did more harm than good? I doubt that Marc Salem or Derren Brown or Richard Osterlind have been harmed by this. Perhaps some fake psychics have been. Quote:
I have this DVD and it is not an expose on psychics, it is not an expose on the supernatural, it is not an expose on James Randi, it is a teaching DVD for younger magicians. Hmmmmmm, it makes one wonder. What does it make you wonder about? |
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Harry H Inner circle 1526 Posts |
Well if nothing else that video has motivated people to also buy Demon Haunted World..so its not all bad!
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Slim King Eternal Order Orlando 18012 Posts |
ENTITY WROTE THIS.....
You question has nothing to do with the discussion at hand, and is not germaine. by not choosing to let you derail the discussion and go off on tangents, what does that make me? I don't know... intelligent, I suppose. - entity My question has everything to do with this discussion, and bottom line, you seem a bit conceited! Like I said before. You are a one way street. Transparent! Randi exposes magic for money....That simple! Jimtron, I've had the Wizard Shool DVD since it came out. Andrew lives down here and had a radio show nearby. On the DVD Andrew stresses the Magicians Code. TELL NO ONE! Randi wants to tell EVERYONE! See the difference?
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
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Tony Iacoviello Eternal Order 13151 Posts |
Why do I wonder why he is selling WIZARD SCHOOL on the page where he lists all of his material that goes after psychics? It makes me wonder about his motives, is he trying to educate people, or just make a buck? My vote is for the latter.
The argument that a lot of people like magic, so he is selling it for them might be made. But a lot of people like cookies. I didn't see anything there about chocolate chips. (And I looked for them!) I think it did no real good at all. Exposure's greatest defense, "how did it impact ypou, directly?" It exposed to the world the use of the thumb tip, showed a method of bending keys that was not his to show, spoon bending, one ahead, and the gypsy switch. Public exposure of magical methods, even if unrelated, reduce the impact of magical effects as people seem to relate these methods to whatever effect they see. (Yes, even if it is totally unrelated, even if they don't remember the method exactly.) Its been agreed to by most here that exposure is bad. Every one who went on television and exposed magical methods had a "reason." The Masked Magician said it was to have magic better itself by moving on to new methods, Rowland and Randi said it was to expose methods used by psychic frauds. I cannot speak to what was going on in their minds, but I can recognize that they got a lot of publicity and a paycheck from doing this service. "Life is a cabaret old chum..." Welcome to show business Tony |
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Slim King Eternal Order Orlando 18012 Posts |
PREACH ON BROTHER!!!!!!!
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
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Tony Iacoviello Eternal Order 13151 Posts |
Thank you brother Slim
I had a dream, it was an awesome dream. Magicians and psychics living together as brothers and sisters. There were rabbits in hats, and tarot cards, sponge balls and crystal balls. Everything was peaceful, and an overwhelming feeling of love permeated the air. OK, I'll stop before I get in trouble again... Tony (Still waiting for the effects of the morning medication to wear off.) |
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Slim King Eternal Order Orlando 18012 Posts |
That reminds me...I forgot to take mine. Maybe that's the problem?
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
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chichi711 Inner circle 5810 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-02-05 17:59, J ack Galloway wrote: You might have been unclear (that has not ever happenend before). Can you remind me what you said? |
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J ack Galloway Inner circle 1309 Posts |
I would but it has nothing to do with this thread.
Jack H.12/O.17 A-X |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Slim You asked if in the histrory of the world a paranormal event ever happened?
Can you prove it ever did? That is Randis point. Simply put prove it. It would seem easier to prove something DOES exist than something does not exist. entity nice to see some back up arive! Like I said they all want to make Randi the problem when he simply asks the question. He exposes fakes. IF fakes use your methods, Slim, J ack, Tony, then I guess it is time for new methods. Should he stop doing what he does and should Darwin stop doing what he does and Bob Arnot on Travel Channel (travel scams) and the guys from Takedown, (wow that was an ugly show but still a valid point). Most of those shows use magicians methods, card moves, is that bad? If not then Randi is not either.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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entity Inner circle Canada 5060 Posts |
I see that Slim and Tony still haven't said how the things Randi exposed have affected them in any way personally. Perhaps they need some time to think.
I know that Jack was personally affected by Randi exposing something of his, and I think that's too bad. I'm not completely clear on the circumstances of the occassion, however. I'm sure there must be more to the story than I've heard. Now.... drum roll.... I will answer Slim's question, as irrellevent to the discussion as it might seem... Question: 'Are you saying that at no time in the History of the planet Earth that a Supernatural event has ever occurred?' Answer: I don't know. I've only been around a few of those years. I haven't seen one, and I've been looking for one for about 35 years. I suppose "The Big Bang" if one believes the theory, comes as close as anything to a "Supernatural Event", although if, in the end it is a part of nature, then it is hardly "supernatural", is it? Now, how does that help in a discussion of the merits and accomplishments of James Randi? - entity
email: tomebaxter@icloud.com
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chichi711 Inner circle 5810 Posts |
Slim can you provide an example of one Supernatural event? Not a theory, but actual proof? I don't know of one personally. That does not mean they have not happened, but like somebody said. If you can fly then jump out the window and fly. If should be easy to prove. To me that is all Randi is asking. If you say you can then do it.
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jimtron Inner circle 2039 Posts |
Quote:
On the DVD Andrew stresses the Magicians Code. TELL NO ONE! Randi may want to tell "everyone" about fake psychics, but he's not going around exposing the secrets to Andrew's DVD. As I said before, I'm sure Amazon is selling tons more copies than Randi. At the magic forum on JREF it says, "For a discussion of magic and magicians, NOT TO INCLUDE THE DISCLOSING OF SECRETS." (their all-caps, not mine) I'm sure I could find more magic secrets on the Café than at JREF. Quote:
It makes me wonder about his motives, is he trying to educate people, or just make a buck? My vote is for the latter. If his main motivation was to "make a buck," why did he make the foundation "not for profit"? Randi doesn't personally profit from selling anything at JREF. Tony and Slim: you guys are against the Webster books that expose cold reading too, right? |
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Tony Iacoviello Eternal Order 13151 Posts |
Jim
We have been through your Webster argument. To quote Joe Pesci, "The case does not hold water." I've stated my opinion in a different thread, and will not recite it here. Nice try though. <WINK> No, Randi is not exposing the secrets on the DVD, he just lists it as one of his products and sells it alongside his expose materials. Answer me this Jim, Where are the cookies? Tony Posted: Feb 6, 2006 11:44am Entity I have addressed your question. Both in this thread and in other threads. Please review the first post on this page. Thank you, now I have to get back to work. Tony |
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jimtron Inner circle 2039 Posts |
Quote:
No, Randi is not exposing the secrets on the DVD, he just lists it as one of his products and sells it alongside his expose materials. Is it unethical for Randi to sell the DVD on his site? No problem about not discussing Webster anymore; it's just that it sounds like a double standard to me--it's OK for Webster to divulge cold reading techniques but not Randi. In my opinion it's OK for both to do it. |
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Tony Iacoviello Eternal Order 13151 Posts |
It confuses what his mission is though. Is it to spread the word on the evil of psychics and flim-flam artists, or to sell whatever might bring money in? So, where are the cookies?
I've finished with the ethics portion and have nothing further to add on that point. Tony |
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jimtron Inner circle 2039 Posts |
Where is the evidence that Randi is only in it for the money? Again, why start a not-for-profit if your main goal is profit? It doesn't make sense. If you have evidence that Randi is only in it for the money, please post it here. Someone could argue that Webster is only in it for the money too--it's just an allegation that you could make about anyone who makes a product for sale. I've heard so much criticism of Randi, and so little that can be backed up with evidence.
That's fine if you don't want to discuss ethics anymore, but I don't think you've made a convincing point that there's anything wrong with Randi selling the Wizard DVD. -Jim |
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entity Inner circle Canada 5060 Posts |
Tony:
I've read the posts. I can't find anywhere where you say how the things Randi has exposed has affected you personally. Please clarify. - entity
email: tomebaxter@icloud.com
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