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J ack Galloway
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Well Danny I am doing what Randi said he would consider real RV.

I am giving him what he wants but making sure I get my money for doing it.

Perhaps you missed that part since so many times you have posted such things.

In fact as of yet no one else has said they could even duplicate my challenge test.

Strange I think. So many pitching stones but no answers.

Not even for the little bit of a demo I did here.

Very strange.

Jack

H.12/O.17 A-X
edh
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Here we go again.
Magic is a vanishing art.
Scott Cram
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Here's a few handy tips for using this article as an authoritative source for putting Randi in a negative light:

1) Make sure no one to whom you're speaking has spent more than 2 weeks of their entire life in Las Vegas.

2) If #1 isn't possible to verify, simply avoid mentioning that the original source for the article is the Las Vegas Weekly, just to be safe.

3) Under no circumstances should you actually show the original article in the actual copy of Las Vegas Weekly from which it originated. The ads for strippers, hemp products and raves will most likely lessen the impact of your point.
jimtron
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I've been looking for a source that quotes Hyman as saying Randi's challenge is rigged. I haven't found it (I highly doubt Hyman said it, but please correct me if anyone has evidence to the contrary), but I did find a site with Hyman's guide to cold reading: http://www.skeptics.com.au/articles/coldread.htm
Dannydoyle
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J ack fact is sir that your test was FAR from an actual test here on the internet.

I could EASILY duplicate it on the internet. Heck just with collusion alone and then deny collusion and BAM duplication. With NO way for you or anyone to disprove it.

What is "funny" to me is you want to sit and claim this stuff is real on the internet, but won't step into the real world to do it for anyone. Just a bunch of great excuses, oh not enough in it for me, I am not in it for the money, this was an entertainment demonstration, NOT a test.

ANY time you want to do this in the real world and under certian conditions, like I said it can be arranged, till then you are starting to fall into the catagory of an "internet remote viewer" or a fake. Allbeit an entertaining one I must say.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Tony Iacoviello
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I'm ready to do a test in the real world.
The only place I feel that I can successfully accomplish this would be at the Hilton Hawaiian Village. So, if someone is willing to sponsor my test, I am willing to accept any logical test conditions. My only stipulation would be that the test period be sometime this month or next month, and that testing take place between 6:30 PM and 8:30 PM each evening for a period of between 1 to 2 weeks. (It is cold during February and March in Boston!) Sponsor should be aware that I DO like to eat, and this could be an expensive test. If I cannot successfully accomplish remote viewing per the testing criteria by the end of the second week, I will reluctantly admit that perhaps after another year of practice I could repeat this and succeed.

Tony
Todd Robbins
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Tony,
You are a giver.
Tony Iacoviello
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Thank you Todd. I try. <G>
Dannydoyle
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Tony I am looking for someone to sponsor you . It sounds amazing.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
handa
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So how was the rest of TAM4?

We stayed home due to the whole "new baby/not sure what to do with her in Vegas and attend the conference at the same time" thing.

I tried attending the seminars via RV, but the transmission was somehow blocked. Probably because I didn't pay my bill. And I didn't have proper clearance to land at McLaren Airport via OBE Airlines. I circled for hours, but ended up just heading toward the light and back home.

Chris
Tony Iacoviello
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Danny:

I'm remote viewing a future possibility right now. I see myself, the desk calendar reads March 10, 2006. It is a Friday. I see me, sitting at my desk, and I have a tan. Hmmm, do I get a sponsor and end up in Hawaii at the Hilton for two weeks, trying to RV?



No, on the corner of the desk is Tan-in-a-Can.


A very cold, and pale Tony
chichi711
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So far in all of my RV research I have found one thing to be true (please note that I have done a lot of research outside of the Café). RV comes down to two key principles.

The frist is take a guess.
The second is spin a miss.

So far that is all I have seen. When that 1 in 4 chance happens you make that seem like an absolute miracle. Don't stop talking about it until everybody knows what happened. Make a big name four yourself!

When you miss you spin it. You talk about other minor hits and why you were "confused". In the end you use ideas like "negativity" for the reason you did not hit the big target. You then take credit for things the spectator gives you. Like cats freaking out etc etc. By the end you have spinned it so well nobody cares that you missed the main target. They are just impressed at other small pointless details that you have made HUGE!

I am sorry to say that is really all I have seen about RV. I truly wish that was not the case, but I have not seen one thing that can prove otherwise.
Tony Iacoviello
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I understand that, that is all that YOU see. But let's not forget that the governments of two superpowers saw much more. Both the US and the USSR had RV programs.

Anyone who has access to a computer can put information up on the web, many do. Much of this information is unreliable. Web searching can only be used as a tool to identify more information sources, it should not be used as a definitive source itself.

Your searching for a paranormal experiment amongst a group who make their living imitating these events does not make sense. I told you that months ago. Your experiences here, whether positive or negative are immaterial and should not be used for an opinion in either direction.

In your exploration, what did you think of the Courtney Brown, Ph.D. book? (SCIENTIFIC REMOTE VIEWING) What did you think of it?

Did you contact any of the people who participated in the government programs? A few of them have been on TLC, PBS programming, and on the Discovery Channel. I was just curious as to what these people who have documented involvement in the US government's RV programs had said to you, and what you said to them.

Can you explain the research you have done, the methods you used for data collection, testing, and analysis?

If you cannot and have not at least done these simple things; your saying it does not exist, or there is not proof that it exists would be like my nephew saying there are no such things as germs, because he cannot see them.

Tony
jimtron
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Quote:
But let's not forget that the governments of two superpowers saw much more. Both the US and the USSR had RV programs.


I've noticed that sometimes governments don't make good decisions. In any case, the fact that these programs existed does not prove that RV is real. If RV is real, why can't it be proven?

Quote:
Web searching can only be used as a tool to identify more information sources, it should not be used as a definitive source itself.


I agree.

Quote:
If you cannot and have not at least done these simple things; your saying it does not exist, or there is not proof that it exists would be like my nephew saying there are no such things as germs, because he cannot see them.


It is demonstrably true that germs exist. If it's demonstrably true that RV power exists, how can it be tested? It should be even easier to prove than germs, because one doesn't require special equipment such as microscopes. All the RV'er has to do is indentify something in a remote location (of course it would need to be something harder to guess than whether a card is black or red). I still haven't heard a reasonable explanation of why remote viewing can't be tested; can someone please enlighten me?
Tony Iacoviello
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It is demons ratably true that germs exist today. True. Did germs exist 200 years ago? Did atoms exist? 200 years ago, physical evidence pointed to the world being flat. (They thought they had the science to prove it.)
200 years ago, it was known as fact that the Earth was in the center of all things. (They thought they had the science to prove it too.)
Just because the person inquiring does not have the experience, tools, or knowledge to correctly investigate does not negate the possibility of a things existence.

"Any technology advanced enough is indistinguishable from magic"
Arthur C. Clarke


Tony
jimtron
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Quote:
On 2006-02-03 16:44, TonyEye wrote:
It is demons ratably true that germs exist today. True. Did germs exist 200 years ago? Did atoms exist? 200 years ago, physical evidence pointed to the world being flat. (They thought they had the science to prove it.)
200 years ago, it was known as fact that the Earth was in the center of all things. (They thought they had the science to prove it too.)
Just because the person inquiring does not have the experience, tools, or knowledge to correctly investigate does not negate the possibility of a things existence.

"Any technology advanced enough is indistinguishable from magic"
Arthur C. Clarke


Tony


Tony, I think we're on the same track. Germs did exist before, but we didn't know that. It was thought that ill people were posessed by demons. Through curiosity and the scientific method, we learned that germs, not demons, can cause illness. Calling the world round was considered heresy by some, but it was the truth. I want to know the truth about remote viewing. If it's real, that's awesome, I would be thrilled. If it's not real, that would be less exciting, but either way, I want to know. Shouldn't we strive to understand how things really are?

Quote:
Just because the person inquiring does not have the experience, tools, or knowledge to correctly investigate does not negate the possibility of a things existence.

I agree. And you may have noticed that I'm not making posts saying that remote viewing isn't real, I'm asking questions (to the annoyance of some) which often remain unanswered. How can we find the truth about remote viewing?
chichi711
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Boy Tony I sure would like to sit down with an RVer and ask questions and learn. The problem is they all side step like pro's. All I can see is that RV teaches how to spin words and side step issues. If you can line the opportunity up to speak to a governemnt offical about RV programs I'll fly where ever neccessary to speak with them. The problem is I would probably not get an APPT and if I did most of the issues would be "top secret". The things they could talk about would be a mess. Meaning it would go something like this?

I ask. IS rv real. yes or no?

6 hours later we have talked about everything else with no real answer. The simple question of yes or no can't be answered. Wierd.

On a side note. Major Dames was in on Governement testing. I tried contacting him and his site numerous times. I never recieved a reply and I was forever banned from the site, because I asked if they could see a number written on my desk. If you can RV would you have to kick someone off of your site because they asked for a test? Seems discrediting to me!
J ack Galloway
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If they did that Chi, I say the guy is a wiggler.

In fact send him an email saying I said so. And include a link to my site.
Ask him if he can do what I can!

At least Randi will answer if asked.

Jack

H.12/O.17 A-X
Tony Iacoviello
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Chichi
I wish I could set you up, or even share more information with you on some of the topics that have come up, but I am not allowed to. There are others, beside Major Dames who have forward. You might consider tracking some of them down. If you are getting banned by web sites, it could be that your approach might be a little to hard, just a thought on that.
Jim:
One further thought on the test and equipment issue you made. It is entirely possible that we all have some latent ability for RVing and other "psychic" talents, but it is of a lesser magnitude than others. Perhaps, as time passes, we will come up with a test that can measure this. Right now, we do not have the technology. As you, and several others have asked, "What is remote viewing?" If we are not sure of what we are looking for, how can we be sure of how to find it.

Jack:
You are correct. I'll bet if Chichi does send your challenge, it will go unanswered.


When I was in school, there were 4 states of matter, solid, liquid, gas, and ether. The smallest object in existance was the atom. Dinosaurs were cold blooded. Things have changed, scientific certainties have changed. Very little can be proven, or disproved absolutely.

We are born, we die, we pay taxes.
Tony
jimtron
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Quote:
As you, and several others have asked, "What is remote viewing?" If we are not sure of what we are looking for, how can we be sure of how to find it.


I agree. What do you think it is?

Quote:
When I was in school, there were 4 states of matter, solid, liquid, gas, and ether. The smallest object in existance was the atom. Dinosaurs were cold blooded. Things have changed, scientific certainties have changed. Very little can be proven, or disproved absolutely.


One reason the scientific method is probably the best thing we have so far for understanding the world, is that it's flexible. If there is solid evidence that a past scientific discovery is wrong, scientists must accept that. In science you don't get to say, "That's just how it is, how it's always been, period. Don't ask too many questions."

Do we know "absolutely" that the earth is (aprox.) round? Perhaps not. But I feel confident in saying that it is round, and not flat. Do I know "absolutely" that humans can't fly (without a glider/wings/a plane, etc.)? No, but I feel confident in saying that humans cannot fly. If someone told me that there is a way for humans to fly unaided, I would be skeptical. However, if the evidence was provided, I would believe it. Fifty years ago, the idea of putting a robot on Mars, that would beam pictures and movies back to Earth, likely would have seemed impossible; merely the stuff of science fiction. But it's a reality.

In other words, maybe we can't "absolutely" prove anything, but there are a great many things that we can agree on are true (round earth, germs can make us sick, gravity pulls us toward the earth, smoking is dangerous, etc). We can try to the best of our abilities to understand the world, or we can put our heads in the sand. In my view, it's fulfilling to be curious and learn about the world as best I can.
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