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John C Eternal Order I THINK therefore I wrote 12086 Posts 
Anyone here who has this item do you also perform a magic square? If so, what is the reaction? Do you prefer the magic sqaure to the sudoku or vice versa?
Is one harder/easier than the other. How about audience reaction? Thanks John
The ULTIMATE Routine Series: rebirth soon!


cfrye Special user Portland, Oregon, USA 941 Posts 
I do both Chuck Hickok's diagonal magic square and my own Relaxing Sudoku routine in my current show. I open with the magic square, and do several other routines before I solve a sudoku puzzle selected at random from one of three books.
I present Relaxing Sudoku as a way to kill time without losing concentration on what's going on around me, and then solve the puzzle in under two minutes. When you do both the magic square and Relaxing Sudoku in a show, it's important to emphasize that the magic square involves arithmetic and the sudoku puzzle involves logic, which are two different aspects of math (maths for the Brits). Curt 

John C Eternal Order I THINK therefore I wrote 12086 Posts 
The reason I ask is because I perfrom in middle and high school. I open with Chuck's Magic Square in Mentalism Inc. I perform 2  4 programs back to back and often some of the teachers stay in the room from one show to the next. I don't know whether or not they pay close attention to the square from one show to the next but ... (I also have the diagonal square and should use that!)
So the Sudoku is logic vs math. That would be ok too. I perform it as a demo of a mind workout. Thanks,
The ULTIMATE Routine Series: rebirth soon!


piefke666 New user germany 83 Posts 
Do it yourself:
http://www.onlinevisions.com/effects/0610werner.htm 

cfrye Special user Portland, Oregon, USA 941 Posts 
Werner's technique enables you to create a valid sudoku grid, which is the opposite of solving a puzzle from a book. It's a great skill, but different from the other routines mentioned in this thread.
Curt 

Andy the cardician Inner circle A street named after my dad 3370 Posts 
Sounds nice. Thanks for bringing this up
Cards never lie


ryesteve Regular user 196 Posts 
Quote:
On 20070112 00:06, cfrye wrote: I just took a look, and I think that it can be used for the sorts of effects mentioned here. If one constructs a stack of partial puzzles that all follow this same construction system, and have a spec choose one of them at random, you can instantly solve it and it'd look pretty miraculous. 

Justin M. Monehen New user UK 51 Posts 
Hi Curt,
Just spotted you have your own Sudoku routine. Is it similar to my presentation (Ultimate Mental Workout) or is it a new method? Just wondered how you are getting on with it  and  if it is a different variation on the theme of Sudoku / Knights Tour  then I would love to have a look at it. All the best, Justin 

cfrye Special user Portland, Oregon, USA 941 Posts 
Hi Justin,
In my routine, a participant selects a puzzle from one of three books and, with the help of another participant, copies the puzzle's starting clues onto a grid. The participant with the book stays on stage to verify your solution, and the other participant can either stay on stage or go back to their seat (small venue) and use a kitchen timer to verify that you solve the puzzle in under two minutes. My instructions teach you the patterns that enable you to solve the majority of the puzzles' regions plus the basic sudoku solving techniques you'll need to fill in the rest of the values (e.g., "I'm missing a 4 and a 7...there's a 4 elsewhere in this row, so this cell must hold a 7..."). You can find the full writeup at http://www.techsoc.com/sudoku.htm , or feel free to PM me if you'd like to ask further questions. Curt 

Justin M. Monehen New user UK 51 Posts 
Wow  sounds great. A similar presentation to mine (I always loved the Knights Tour) and copying the puzzle onto a large grid I think allows the entire audience to 'take part'. Sounds like a completely different method  which is cool. Of course my version uses 'one' book  but during my performances I usually use a magicians force to allow the helper to 'choose' a random book from a pile of Puzzle Books (actually I cheat as I have had printed a few variations of my book  so the choice is 'almost' free)
I think the only variation that my version has is the ability to let the helper 'lie' on one or two of the numbers as they copy the puzzle onto the large grid (I'm assuming you need the full puzzle to complete the grid?) which (I hope) adds a little drama to the presentation and also gives another reason for the puzzle to be copyied from the book. I love these sorts of puzzles and 'mind power' effects and think that a lot can be done with them in magical performances etc. I'm sure there will be many more Sudoku effects coming out and it will be interesting to see the directions they take. Currently I'm working on a complete puzzle book that contains multiple book tests and effects (logic puzzles, sudoku puzzles, crosswords and word searches). No idea when I'll finish it (actually started it years ago before the Sudoku book) but hopefully I'll get time to finish it soon. All the best, JMM 

cfrye Special user Portland, Oregon, USA 941 Posts 
Quote:
On 20071211 04:40, Justin M. Monehen wrote: In my effect, a puzzle's starting clues do need to be transcribed accurately. I have built in safeguards (known starting clue positions, inregion patterns, etc.) that enable you to know when the transcribers have made an error. I've performed the effect dozens of times and there's only been one error, which I caught before I started solving the puzzle on the clock. I always bring up two people who don't know each other, at least one of whom is very interested in sudoku, so there's less chance they'll make my life difficult. One adult and one teen works very well for that purpose. Like your book sets, my three books all have the same puzzles, just in a different order. Best to you! Curt 

ryesteve Regular user 196 Posts 
I wanted to revive this thread to ask a question that is more relevant now than it would've been when these effects were first devised. If you were to perform this for a group of people nowadays, the odds are very good that at least one of them, perhaps several, are going to have an iPhone with a Sudoku app on it.
Not only does this make "choosing a puzzle from a book" seem quaint, you also run the risk that a spectator will want you to do a puzzle they're having particular trouble with, once you've demonstrated your skill. Unless you were to change the method such that ANY puzzle could be solved, are routines like this still viable? 

Justin M. Monehen New user UK 51 Posts 
Interesting idea about the phone app  but in a show environment  I have not had this problem in the same way that I have never done a tossedout deck routine on stage and had a member of the audience insist on using their own cards (or indeed done any book test and had a member of the audience throw their own paperback onto the stage).
As an aside to this  I actually have a small 'subtlety' in my presentation that could accommodate this problem  but it would be sneaky. So if you happen to be in the audience with your iphone  I think I could keep the effect together. However, choosing a puzzle from a book is no more quaint than choosing a card from a deck  why not just think of a card?  But that is a different trick. I must also admit that I have a bit of a thing about mixing tricks with iphone  as this opens up the possibility of technology is the answer in the audience's minds. As soon as someone shows me a trick on the iphone  I know that it is an app. It is an object that is pretty close to magic anyway  of course it knows which card I stopped at in a slideshow or can display an image of an appearing coin  it can also read my emails, pinpoint my exact location within a square meter, edit video footage and access my home computer and run every program on it  far more impressive. (Sorry  probably a different discussion thread required) All the very best, JMM PS  I am now secretly hoping that someone does want to try the iphone option during the routine now  It would be fun to see if I can pull it off!!! 

Justin M. Monehen New user UK 51 Posts 
Further thoughts on someone providing the puzzle for you. The concept of solving the sudoku puzzle within moments is based on all the information being 'there'. This why good soduku books talk about 'hand made' puzzles and not just computer generated (which sometimes require trial and error). As most iPhone apps are not guaranteed to be a 'legit' puzzle then I don't think it would be bad thing to pass on an app puzzle and continue with the book test element.
If someone has started a puzzle and wants you to complete it  then simply saying that that would be cheating should be enough, no? 

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