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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Lights...camera...action! » » Trick for Cyril (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

Chris Jones
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I have made up a trick for Cyril that totally rocks and I would like to sell it to him. Has any one else sold magic tricks to TV magicians I do not know how much to charge to him? Can anyone advise>?

It's a great trick that is ka-ka boom.

Criss
Good evening Barbara, good evening Jerry, hello Tom.
Paolo Venturini
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Lucca (I.) - New York City
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First at all, I think you should make a video of your effect: first could be better in case you must send it to your buyer, second it will state your paternity of the effect...

Paolo Venturini
Chris Jones
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Hmm vidoe is cool and all but I am worried that the trick maybe stolen. I can describe the trick too him.

Crss
Stop the pigeon
Lukas
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Plymouth, UK
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Copyright the Trick then if it dose get stolen take legal action. Also write down dates of when you come up with the trick. You can even print this post to back you up.

Lukas
Make the difficult look easy, and the easy beautiful.

President and Minutes Secretery of the Plymouth Magic Circle



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Caveat Lector
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A cheap way to copywrite something is to mail it to youself using certified mail. This way it has an official date and stamp, and you can verify exactly when you did it. Of course you cannot open the envelope, but I'm sure you know that. It is not the best way to do it, but it will give you a legal leg to stand on.
Corrupting the art of magic, one show at a time
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BryanDreyfus
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If someone does steal it after you you go through the time and expense of copyrighting and/or providing yourself with a dated proof could you afford the legal action? I am talking about thousands of dollars for what? to stop someone form doing a trick?

The only way to keep it a secret is to never perform it. then it can't be seen and it can't be copied.

That goes for every product..you have to trust your targeted buyer or you'll never do business.

I am dubious to any claim that something is new. Most things that are new turn out to be the tried and true methods that have been around for well over a hundred years rearranged to "look" new.

good luck,

Bryan
Oh sure, I can spell "Antidisestablishmentarianism", but I can't type t-h-e.
Zeker
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Unfortunately the "mail yourself a copy" copyright trick is an old one in the screenwriting business, but it doesn't prove that it was in the envelope at the time it was sent.

EX: I can mail an envelope with stamps on it without closing it. The post office doesn't care since you paid for the stamps. Then when it arrives I can put the latest blockbuster script in it.
Caveat Lector
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Quote:
On 2006-02-03 17:21, Zeker wrote:
Unfortunately the "mail yourself a copy" copyright trick is an old one in the screenwriting business, but it doesn't prove that it was in the envelope at the time it was sent.

EX: I can mail an envelope with stamps on it without closing it. The post office doesn't care since you paid for the stamps. Then when it arrives I can put the latest blockbuster script in it.


That is why you have it sent certified and you list the contents on the invoice. It is an old trick and it does stand up in court as my lawyer has prosocuted using this as an example. With it certified it is sealed on the back by the green form that would have to be ripped off to get inside.
Corrupting the art of magic, one show at a time
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www.myspace.com/johnshawcomedymagic
Mysterioii
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Quote:
That is why you have it sent certified and you list the contents on the invoice. It is an old trick and it does stand up in court as my lawyer has prosocuted using this as an example. With it certified it is sealed on the back by the green form that would have to be ripped off to get inside.


http://www.snopes.com/legal/postmark.asp

According to snopes the "poor man's copyright" is dodgy at best in the U.S., although it may stand up better in Britain. If you're in the U.S. you may have your lawyer contact them, they say "We've yet to locate a case of its use where an author's copyright was established and successfully defended in a court of law by this method" so if you can provide an example they may change their listing.
mook
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Steve Fearson would probably be the best person to contact for what you're doing. He's a super nice guy. He would be able to answer your questions with first-hand knowledge because, like you, he invents tricks/effects and he has sold some to David Copperfield. His website is http://www.downloadmagic.com.
Caveat Lector
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Quote:
On 2006-02-07 12:38, Mysterioii wrote:
Quote:
That is why you have it sent certified and you list the contents on the invoice. It is an old trick and it does stand up in court as my lawyer has prosocuted using this as an example. With it certified it is sealed on the back by the green form that would have to be ripped off to get inside.


http://www.snopes.com/legal/postmark.asp

According to snopes the "poor man's copyright" is dodgy at best in the U.S., although it may stand up better in Britain. If you're in the U.S. you may have your lawyer contact them, they say "We've yet to locate a case of its use where an author's copyright was established and successfully defended in a court of law by this method" so if you can provide an example they may change their listing.

This is in reference to you, mailing it to yourself by regular mail. Then it would stand true that you could possibly tamper with the envelope. I am referring to sending it by certified mail, which is a service that you have to pay for in addition to the regular mail and it is logged into the post offices computer as to when it was actually sent. It is a little different then just sending it to yourself via regular mail. But you are right, it would be very hard to defend using the stamp it yourself method. But this site is not referring to the certified mail method.
Corrupting the art of magic, one show at a time
www.underworldent.com
www.myspace.com/johnshawcomedymagic
Caveat Lector
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I found this, it looks like something that you could use to help yourself as well and it doesn't seem too expensive.
http://www.copyrighthelper.com/index2.htm
Corrupting the art of magic, one show at a time
www.underworldent.com
www.myspace.com/johnshawcomedymagic
bitterman
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What if a mentalist cert. mailed himself a prediction about what someone else was going to think? Could he then sue that person for theft when they finally thought of it? Get Cyril on the phone. I know how to pull this off; maybe he'll buy the idea.
If you are not cheating, you are only cheating yourself.

Dutchco is about to put out some new Ebook: DUTCHCO. Get 'em while you can.
Foucault
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Unfortunately, you cannot copyright an idea, only the text. So if someone took the instructions you created and duplicated and distributed them, that would be copyright infringement.

Your best bet would be to take a look in the "Tricky business" and "Right or Wrong?" forums, where these topics come up a lot.
JustinDavid
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Man that snopes.com is a great site.
Newly renovated and ready to be explored:

www.JustinDavidMagic.com
tpdmagic
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Well, First Off I would say contact Cyril, It might take a while for him to get back to you but heck worth a try. If that doesn't work, why not use the trick yourself for a while and build a rep with it then market it. I don't know if I would give up a new effect for someone that I didn't know. I meen sure that is great but heck I would like to test run it for a while and see how the reactions and everything are. Make sure all the kinks are out as well. I don't think you would have a problem finding Cyril as he is all over the internet so if you really want to try to sell him the effect go for it. As for how much to charge well if you are not sure then that is not a good thing, There are many things to consider in regards to selling a effect. How much was your cost on parts, how much labor time, how much reaserch...ect. Then are you going to sell him the exclusive rights or is it something you just want him to use. There are a lot of factors involved. A video sent to Cyril I would say would be safe to do and not get stolen a video on myspace, youtube, and all that stuff mayby not a good idea.
PM me if you would like and I will try to help if I can.

tpdmagic
greg frewin
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I am not sure on this but from what I understand you need to take the person to court in the country that the infraction happened. Therefore you may need to hire representation in Japan if that were to happen and frankly I think this would get rather expensive. That is the way I understand the law and have had happen in situations were theft was involved. Hope this helps.
daffydoug
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Quote:
On 2006-02-03 10:27, Caveat Lector wrote:
A cheap way to copywrite something is to mail it to youself using certified mail. This way it has an official date and stamp, and you can verify exactly when you did it. Of course you cannot open the envelope, but I'm sure you know that. It is not the best way to do it, but it will give you a legal leg to stand on.


If you do several this way, take a pencil, and lightly write on the back of the envelope what is in it, that way, you won't be left in confusion!
The difficult must become easy, the easy beautiful and the beautiful magical.
tanselkaya
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David Copperfield's flying illusion was patented by the inventor. The plans and details of the illusion are public information now. So there is a trade off.

I'm a researcher and we constantly patent our work to prevent competing companies from progressing in the same field. If they hit one of our patents they have to invent around it or reach an aggreement with us. Typically there are cross violations and whoever violates more pays some settlement fee.

Patents require you to have access to good (expensive) lawyers and are best when dealing with companies. Individual violations are not very lucrative Smile
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