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mxray Loyal user 276 Posts |
Vinnie, The Godfather Squeeze Palm is fantastic, and like someone else said, I cannot believe you didn't show this exclusively on DVD or something.
I was visiting family this weekend, and while sitting around, I practiced a lot to keep from going insane.. Though I am having a little trouble with "slip noise" right now, it will be something I use regualrly, once I am confident with it. Since I've come to this site, some of what I have learned from both you and Jonathon Townsend has had nothing at all to do with magic. Thanks again for your contributions and your generosity. MXRay |
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vinsmagic Eternal Order sleeping with the fishes... 10960 Posts |
Ray thank you for your input
Pm me with e mail address and I will make a personal demo for you , there should be absoluetly no noise factor indoing the squeeze plam control, vinny |
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wsduncan Inner circle Seattle, WA 3619 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-02-19 19:35, LobowolfXXX wrote: Because what Bish wrote is demonstrably wrong. By his own words, The Godfather is not a scholar of magic. Both Vernon and Marlo were. So, at least, in magic Vinny is not the equal of Vernon or Marlo. No reason to be ashamed of that. Neither Vernon, nor Marlo, were the equal of Charlie Miller when it comes to scholarship. By all reports, Bish is right to say that Vinny is very much like Vernon and Marlo in that he knows how to entertain with magic and that he is a fine person. But that does not make him the equal of Vernon and Marlo (who were both scholars) in magic. He may well be a better performer than either of them. But that does not justify the totality of Glen’s statement. The Café has a tendency towards the cult of personality, and it is good that someone has the guts to speak the truth, and even better that Vinny clearly hasn’t let that go to his head. My respect for Vinny has grown since reading his reponse to this thread. Why do we need there to be equals to Vernon or Marlo? We already HAVE Vernon and Marlo. We need NEW people to inspire us, and it seems Vinny does a pretty good job of that. Isn't that enough? |
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Steven Youell V.I.P. 3866 Posts |
[quote]On 2006-02-19 21:04, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
As Bish has, in fact, seen the work of all concerned, while one may agree or disagree with his conclusions, there isn't anything confusing or invalid about the logic. Actually, there are at least three fallacies involved in the argument you described above. Shall I list them? Does it matter? Ah forget it, I'm going back underground... SEY |
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bishthemagish Inner circle 6013 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-02-20 15:28, Steven Youell wrote: Perhaps after that we can talk about how others seem to want to make it there business when and how people should give others compliments. I also find it interesting the fact that I find Steven Youell very lucky in the fact that he seems to have made it in magic at a very young age. Others in magic have to work hard and then later find they have little respect. If I loses respect or "Credibility" from any magician for giving another a much deserved and from my opinion a true compliment - well then I still don't see how that would be MY problem!
Glenn Bishop Cardician
Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs |
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DJG Inner circle 1296 Posts |
<<If I loses respect or "Credibility" from any magician for giving another a much deserved and from my opinion a true compliment - well then I still don't see how that would be MY problem!>>
Who's attacking your "credibility"? Certainly not I, nor anyone else from what I can see. And what does "credibility" have to do with it? If you read the posts you will see you, I, and everyone else here is just stating their OPINION. Some will agree with you, some won't, and some won't even make sense to most. Isn't that one of the beauties of a forum? It seems to me that you are stating your opinion as fact (NOTHING wrong with that, but it is still an opinion), and when someone disagrees with your opinion with one of their own, you consider it an attack, and question their competence, moral, skill, and now apparently Steven's "Luck" at "Making it in magic at a very young age". I have no idea who Steven is, other than he released an instructional CD on how to make his "Scruffy". For all I know instead of sucking on a pacifier, he was doing card in mouth (or card IN pacifier, I don't know). Point is, in my opinion there is no attack on your "credibility"; just people stating his/her opinions. But then again, that is just me... Lastly, what does ANY of this bickering have to do with the topic at hand? Can't we just get back on track? I'll start: I could never do a side steal. I haven't given up, but I have been cursed with a birth defect that makes it THAT much more difficult. What I have done is substituted sleight of hand with a little misdirection and psychology, and end up with a nice control that I use as much as possible. It's sort of an adapted combination of Kelly Bottom Placement/Gambler's Cop/Tenkai Palm. I'd like to say what I do is different, but will err on the side of caution and give credit where credit is due. |
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vinsmagic Eternal Order sleeping with the fishes... 10960 Posts |
Once again G I would be very interested in seeing your work on this technique.
I am never too old to learn and find better ways of doing things . thank you vinny |
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DJG Inner circle 1296 Posts |
I am writing it as we speak. As you can see in my writing I lack finese (spell checker) and articulation, so I shudder to think how my explaination would turn out. Still working...
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vinsmagic Eternal Order sleeping with the fishes... 10960 Posts |
Thanks a million
vinny |
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NeoMagic Inner circle I have... 2017 Posts |
The one question I have on the squeeze palm is the action of the palming hand... with the fingers closing into a grip/fist like that (with forefinger pointing at the deck) as if grabbing something as it moves away... I don't know, it doesn't seem to sit right with me. Does this not draw attention to the move somewhat or does it get by under test conditions?
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JimMaloney Inner circle 1184 Posts |
Neo,
Not that I've tried this out before any real people yet, but I think the gesture will be preceived more as a pointing rather than a grabbing. In other words, the focus will be on the tip of your index finger instead of on the other three fingers as they close. -Jim
Books and Magazines for sale -- more than 200 items (Last updated January 17th, 2014. Link goes to public Google Doc.)
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bishthemagish Inner circle 6013 Posts |
You can steal the card from the Kelly bottom placement into a Tenki palm or the gamblers palm. This can be done from the bottom of the deck or the center. But it is not the same moves as the side slip.
Two very good write ups for the side slip are in the Dai Vernon Tribute to Nate Leipzig. And in the Card Magic of LePaul by Paul Le Paul. Only in the LePaul book the side slip is called the side steal.
Glenn Bishop Cardician
Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
Quote:
Sure, please do! My argumentation skills are quite limited; I was only able to score in the 99th percentile on the Law School Admissions Test. I'm dying to hear about the three you noticed.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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DJG Inner circle 1296 Posts |
<<But it is not the same moves as the side slip.>>
Agreed, but for my applications I believe it accomplishes the same thing. I either place the card where needed, or steal it completely depending on what I am doing. <<Two very good write ups for the side slip are in the Dai Vernon Tribute to Nate Leipzig. And in the Card Magic of LePaul by Paul Le Paul. Only in the LePaul book the side slip is called the side steal.>> Read both, still practice, still trying...thanks! |
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Steven Youell V.I.P. 3866 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-02-20 20:41, LobowolfXXX wrote: Oh my! That and five bucks could get you a latte at Starbucks with enough left over to tip. Here's what you wrote: Quote:
The implication is that Bish knew the above mentioned magicians, and considers them great. Because Bish spent time with someone, it does not neccessarily follow that they *knew* them in the intimate sense of the word. It means that they spent time with them. Cervon, Jennings, Carney, Ose, The Larsons etc., *knew* Vernon. From how I read Bish's post, he *spent time* with Vernon and Marlo. Making the assumption of equating what Bish wrote with an long and intimate association is a mistake in reasoning. It's jumping to a conclusion. Guess they didn't have that on the LSAT, huh? Quote:
If you agree that they were great, then that is evidence supporting Bish's ability to evaluate magical talent. No, it isn't. Your statement is a false if/then statement. If there was no other evidence that Vernon and Marlo were great then your supposition might hold water. But there is an overwhelming amount of evidence that Marlo and Vernon were great. This means that someone with absolutely no discernment whatsoever and no knowledge of magic could make the statement that Vernon and Marlo were great and according to your faulty reasoning that would automatically qualify them to accurately judge the value of another magicians contributions. How hard do you think it would be for someone who has no knowledge of magic whatsoever to get on this board, cruise through the messages for a week and then make a statement like "Vernon and Marlo were two of the greatest cardmen in the world"? Would agreeing with that statement neccessitate ageeing with other evaluations of performers? I don't believe so. Quote:
Bish then relies on the same tools of evaluation to make a statement about another magician, an evaluation that one is more likely to accord weight to if one agrees with his evaluation of the others. There is no evidence to support this. First, Bish made a blanket statement without listing any criteria whatsoever. Here is what he wrote: Quote:
I consider Vinny’s work with cards equil to and as important to card magic as the card work of Ed Marlo and Dai Vernon! There was no criteria listed. It was a sweeping, unqualified statement. So, just to be clear, let me tell you the criteria I use to diasgree with Bish's statement. Here's *some* of the criteria I would use to judge someone's contribution to Card Magic: 1) The number and quality of contributions to trade journals or magazines. 2) The number of well established experts who endorse those contributions. 3) The nunber and quality of lectures the person has made around the world. 4) How well known the person is from numbers 1 through 3 above. 5) Testimonies from people I trust who have seen and spent time with the person. 6) How well the person's work stands up over a long period of time. So that's the criteria I would use to make the judgement. And it is on that basis that I reject Glenn Bishop's statement. Now you may agree or disagree-- I don't really care. However to defend such a sweeping, unqualified unsupported statement as Glenn Bishop made is just plain intellectually dishonest. And anyone who actually THINKS and does the math on the sheer volume of contributions, articles, books, DVD's, lectures, etc. surely *could not honestly* accept Glen Bishop's statement as anything other than pandering nonsense. And, although this is just my opinion, anyone who makes such a statement has no judgement or credibility whatsoever. I shall not waste my time on this nonsense anymore. Steven Youell |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
[quote]On 2006-02-20 23:52, Steven Youell wrote:
Quote:
As a logician, you're an excellent card mechanic; that and five bucks will get you a latte...
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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Daegs Inner circle USA 4291 Posts |
Wow... at least come up with your own come-back, lol... it sounded a lot better coming from Steven.
Also, the reason it was funny was that you were bragging about some 99th percentile... he wasn't really bragging or backing up his statement by saying he is an excellent card mechanic, so your reply really makes no sense, it only bolsters Steven's argument and shows you don't have a leg to stand on when it comes to defending your idea's... -daegs, tired of people bragging about 99th percentile ranking ps I know many people who scored in the 99th percentile in some acedemic test, yet the only ones I respect seem to be those that never actually bring up their test scores... |
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rannie Inner circle 4375 Posts |
Opinions are always valid to the person who made them, sweeping, unqualified or unsupported, ridiculous or otherwise. No one can decide how a man should percieve things. This has obviously gotten ugly and personal. Very disappointing and probably, disturbing to new Café' members. Steve was right , he should not waste time on this NONESENSE anymore. Useless time was indeed wasted on it already!
The topic was the side steal. I hope we get back to the topic as I am always hoping to learn more here in the Café. I use the Squeeze Palm and I have worked on it long enough that it is second nature to me. I love the look and the naturalness. The basic mechanics of the move combined with my natural hand movement that I am acustomed to makes it undetectable. I also love the lateral side steal. I saw this one from Lennart Green. Lets just support and help each other here fellas. Allow each other to institutionalize or even acknowledge any mentor or magician any way we wish to. My good friend Glenn did'nt say it was carved and etched in stone. Bish never required anybody to agree. That was his view. This is honest and true to him. It is true for me as well. Peace! Rannie Raymundo aka The Boss aka The Manila Enforcer
"If you can't teach an old dog new tricks, trick the old dog to learn."
-Rannie Raymundo- aka The Boss aka The Manila Enforcer www.rannieraymundo.com www.tapm.proboards80.net |
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DomKabala Inner circle I've grown old after diggin' holes for 2827 Posts |
Quote: I could'nt have put it any better Rannie. Both Bish and Vinny have gained my respect since I became a member of this wonderful & informative forum. I too have practiced Vinny's Squeeze Palm relentlessly and I use it to no end now, it's become almost second nature to me. Thanks Vinny and Glenn!
On 2006-02-21 01:32, rannie wrote: :bikes: <<<KRaZy4kardz>>>
We don't stop playing when we grow old...we grow old when we stop playing.
God is enough, let go, let God. Gal 2:20 "Anything of value is not easily attained and those things which are easily attained are not of lasting value." |
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NeoMagic Inner circle I have... 2017 Posts |
Well said, Steven.
Back to the topic... I still have concerns about that hand closing into a near-fist as the squeeze is made and the hand taken away... maybe it'll grow on me. But people here appear to be using it (under performance conditions I presume) so I guess it stands the test of scrutiny and that's the all important factor. Different strokes for different folks. We all have our preferred methods that fit in best with our individual tastes, personalities and skill levels. The "squeeze" appears a great way to make the steal/palm, if only (for me personally at least) there were some way to overcome the fist clench. Needs some thought. Thanks, Vinny!
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