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Cliff Rusnick
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Sodman, I mentioned that this is not in game.. mierly for practice... so you get used to holding back more cards. and if you show stacking a 5 handed game in one shuffle, it's just for show. for example I will be doing a poker demo or.. more of a close up show but with every trick geared to poker... I will be doing a lot of real work though, and I will first demontrate stacking a hand how you would go about it in a game. I lose the 4 aces into the deck, then find and stack the aces with 4 shuffles. then I will say, now... we can see how far you can take it. lose all the aces in the middle of the deck again, then I proceed to stack all 5 hands in one shuffle, with the 4 aces falling to my or any hand they like.
sodman12
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raleigh
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Its good but the drop in your lap needs to look better.
I would just palm the cards and a little bit and then with the cover of showing the two AA deposit them in your lap.
I'm not a big fan of mucking. its dangerous since if you were in a real game its the only time when you can be caught with evidence on you. I would just keep working on stacking esp. double duking and maby try a bottom deal and some seconds.
post some more and keep up the good work.
if you do try the bottom I would not try to copy anyones style. I have found it eaiser with a lot of move and deffinately with the bottom deal that I should use my own style instead of some pros
you can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all the time but never all of the people all the time.
card cheat
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There are problems with this muck, and with the way that you are doing it.

First of all, this is a two for two switch. The company would have to be pretty soft and slow to not notice two cards missing from the deck.

The best time to muck in two for two would not be right before you had to show the hand, as this is when you are most likely being burned the most. I have to disagree with Sodman that the best shade for this switch is the showing down of the hand.

If you must do this switch (and you really shouldn't), try making it a two-handed muck. The problem with the way that you are doing it, is that it looks like you are trying to wipe the table as though it were a bartop. Not very natural, is it?

I, personally, can think of different ways of mucking two for two that would make the actual switch and the clean up appear very natural.

I can also think of better ways to take a game down....

CC
sodman12
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raleigh
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When I said the best way to discard I was talking about not in a game. sorry for the confusion. as I said earler it would be difficult for me to want to muck in a game that is above first graders. Not to say that I cant but I think CC can attest that it is not the safest way to attain the money. I think ill stick to my stacking for now
you can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all the time but never all of the people all the time.
Cliff Rusnick
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The only time I would attempt a muck is if I'm at a square table and I have a partner sitting right next to me, and everyone is looking at their hand. so.. heavy misdirection, and a safe angle.. then I'd get rid of the switched out cards as soon as I could.. meaning.. at the end of that round. but I much prefer stacking over mucking any day
card cheat
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I have seen some very nice mucks take place, don't get me wrong. I actually know one player who happens to be one bad mutha-mucka (sorry, I couldn't help it!) This woman, and other cheats who favor playing heavy, will tell you that the move/clean up is a big part of it. They will also tell you that without the proper strategy, solid play, and prudence that the cleanest moves in the world won't help you.

I think that the biggest issue with switching cards is that most who practice this only practice the moves; and usually the wrong moves, at that.

Like I said, there are other ways to take control of a game.

CC
sodman12
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raleigh
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Its not the move that scares me it just that I have cards on me before and after the move. its a lot eaiser to accuse someone of cheating when they have two or three cards in there lap than if you think you saw something
you can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all the time but never all of the people all the time.
J0ma
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Alright now.. In a real game, first of all, I would not work alone. Then I would do the muck two handed, in action of peeking the cards in texas hold em. Then I must say that its veery slow company where I play Smile but just to remember, never underestimate even your smallest enemy
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J0ma
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Allright.. here are some new videos.. Please some advice guys Smile

2 handed muck with cleanup: http://rapidshare.de/files/13947880/nice_cleanup.wmv.html

Strike Second Deal: http://rapidshare.de/files/13948005/strike_second.wmv.html

Maybe a little hesitation Smile

-J0ma-
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sodman12
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raleigh
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If your working with a partener then I don't see I really good reason to muck. I mean when your working a lone its nice b/c your not dealing but if your runnning up hands for another person its not a obivious
you can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all the time but never all of the people all the time.
J0ma
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Yes, the muck was merely for practice, but how about my second deal. I have tested it and it fooled them.


-J0ma-
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sodman12
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raleigh
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Try letting the cards sail when you deal your seconds. its good but it needs to look more natural.
the muck was good but let me ask you this. is that what it looks like when you really look at yur cards?
you can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all the time but never all of the people all the time.
halcon
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Listen to what CC is saying. there is a hidden gem in his posts.

Halcon
sodman12
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CC I don't think anyone would notice 2 cards missing from a deck. maby if your playing with people who hold a deck for a living they might but just a regular joe I don't think could tell. I think it was in the book how to cheat your friends at poker that they guy said 7 was the max you could take.
For me like CC said there are much better ways to take down a game. mucking almost never gives you the nuts and again you most likey don't know what your adversary has in his hand.
you can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all the time but never all of the people all the time.
card cheat
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Quote:
On 2006-02-24 15:07, sodman12 wrote:
CC I don't think anyone would notice 2 cards missing from a deck.

Perhaps what you mean to say is that in YOUR game nobody would notice two cards missing from the deck. I, personally, can tell when the deck is one short. Some players can sense the shortness of the deck and some can't; the fact is that no player is going to warn you of their hyper-sensitivity before the game. Do you want to find out the hard way?

Again, some hand muckers are ARTISTS. When the work is done well, and with the neccessary discretion the entire process is a thing of absolute beauty and I respect the executioners of such moves very much so. When the work is attempted by overzeallous neophytes who overestimate their capabilites; it is comical to say the least (and I am ony talking about the actual sleight-of-hand, here.)

Quote:
On 2006-02-24 15:07, sodman12 wrote:
I think it was in the book how to cheat your friends at poker that they guy said 7 was the max you could take.

How much of that book do you really think is taken seriously by real cheats? I'll give you a hint: the answer sounds like "hero." The book is sold in Barnes & Noble, man; think about it. The book can be valued, in my opinion (and what do I know about cheating?), for the anecdotes. Suffice it to say that it is not the "how to" manual that it claims to be. Perhaps it should be called, "How to Get Caught Cheating Your Friends at Poker."

Quote:
On 2006-02-24 15:07, sodman12 wrote:
For me like CC said there are much better ways to take down a game. mucking almost never gives you the nuts and again you most likey don't know what your adversary has in his hand.


In reality, the best cheating scams and strategies only yield a greater percentage for the cheat(s); not a lock on the pot. In other words, cheating never guarantees a win. I, personally, have cheated and left loser (that's right, I said it.)

What Sodman says here is why strategy and solid Poker play must be used in tandem with good card switching. If your muck does not give you the nuts, then you did it at the wrong time.

Find another way to skin your cat.
CC
sodman12
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raleigh
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The only time I could see cheating and loosing would be if
1) I got incredible unlucky
2)messed up my stacking
3)or if I was down and before I began to cheat I noticed people at the table talking about ortiz or forte or anything that would make me feel uncomfortable enough to not want to pull even the best of my moves
you can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all the time but never all of the people all the time.
card cheat
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Gee... you must be really good.

Trust me, Sod, all cheaters lose sometimes.

Tell me, what would you do if:

Upon gathering the cards for the next deal, you spot three Aces (everybody loves Aces, right?)

By your chosen method, you stack the cards to fall to you or your takeoff man.

You deal and signal to your man that you stacked trips; in other words, call the preflop action if you have a pair in the pocket. He folds, you screwed up; he calls, it's on.

Let's say that he calls and you have already peeked the top two cards; you see the Ace that needs to hit the board. You deal it out, he makes his hand. Plenty of action, and your man is in the pot (this means he is betting money that his hand will not be beaten.)

Along with the Ace on the flop, you see two suited cards; clubs for the sake of this discussion.

Now, you start to sweat a little because, after you peek AGAIN, you see that the next four cards (at least) are clubs.

Now you have choices:

1) Signal to your man to fold. There are two more rounds of betting and if someone did make a flush, even a low flush, the trips have been trashed (Aces, cracked again!) If you fold, you LOST the money in the pot; even though you save the money in front of you.

2) Let your man play on, hoping that nobody has the flush. If nobody does, then you still have a shot of winning the hand, but not a lock on the pot. In my opinion, even if you win, you are still destined to lose eventually. Why? Because you are CHEATING! Leave the big gambling to the others and play your cards smart; respect your edge.

If you were not cheating, and had not stacked the Aces, would you go head to head with a possible flush? If you say "yes" then you are totally abandoning the golden rule of cheating at cards: be a solid player on the square.

3) Resort to further manipulations to reset the deck; perhaps this would prevent the flush from hitting the board. This is risky because, by this time, other players have certainly folded and might be watching you (players often watch the dealer just to have something to look at.) At this time, you are becoming desperate and taking desperate measures to increase your chances of winning. How far are you willing to go to win a pot? I will tell you this: the prudent, patient, and humble cheat is the one who will last and last and last. Go too far, too many times, and you will end up getting caught. This is a fact.

CC
halcon
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Sodman, CC is right.

check out the action on TV and you will see people hit miracle hands on the river. in a nine player game there are 26 cards in play. that is a lot of cards to have control over. I too, have been burned.

you don't believe me, try this. deal out a nine handed game, face down, with you cheating to get rockets or cowboys. don't look at the other cards but play your cards. peek, base, or deuce the burn and community cards to help you get a good hand. once it's done flip over the other eight hands and see who has a better hand. how many times did you win? how many times did you lose? Sure some of the hands would have folded, but in this scenario the fact that you flipped them over at the end of the round could be made to believe they were bluffing.

Halcon
sodman12
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raleigh
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What was reason number 1
you can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all the time but never all of the people all the time.
sodman12
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raleigh
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Ive played a lot of poker online and off. I am a well seasoned poker player and am well read on the subject. I understand that it is difficult to win all the time that's why I made a list of the resons in which I would most likely loose
you can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all the time but never all of the people all the time.
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