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Gerry Walkowski Inner circle 1450 Posts |
Hey GMan,
I couldn't agree more. All in all, I thought Dave Dee had a few good ideas here and there. I'm saying I agreed with him 100%. Some of his stuff had a sleaze element and I didn't care for that. Still, there were good ideas sprinkled throughout many of his products. I'm not saying he originated this stuff, but many magicians offering goodie bags, multiple shows and chair suspensions at birthday parties learned about this stuff from Dave. He also inspired a host of imitators. Gerry |
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Gerry Walkowski Inner circle 1450 Posts |
Sorry, that one sentence should have read as "I'm NOT saying I agreed with him 100%."
Gerry |
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Dynamike Eternal Order FullTimer 24148 Posts |
I left Joe a message on Facebook.
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jakeg Inner circle 1741 Posts |
Donald (and others), with all of the courses that you've gone through, which ones would you recommend for someone trying to build their business? (You knew that sooner or later someone would ask )
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Gerry Walkowski Inner circle 1450 Posts |
Tell us a little about yourself.
What type of shows do you do? Where are you in your career as a performer? I think your answer might help us help you. Gerry |
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MrHyde Special user 810 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-12-26 17:44, jakeg wrote: You might want to spend some time on the Tricky Business forum. Despite the description that it's mostly about Cruise Ships & Trade Shows most of the discussion is on Magic Marketing in general Timothy |
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patrick1515 Regular user 142 Posts |
I had purchased Dave Dee's marketing materials about 15 years ago when I was looking to to get back into performing for a living. His ideas were strong fundamentals which apply to any type of business. I recieve an email newsletter regularly from Jack Turk, he has sort of taken over the torch from Dave. Jacks materials are also solid and will help any magician gain market share.
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The Great Zucchini Inner circle 1347 Posts |
Yep, also got it 20 years ago and lots of what he was saying could apply to many different avenues or professions. He def. knows how to promote a marketing course, I will say that. I bought one when I was first starting out.
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Gerry Walkowski Inner circle 1450 Posts |
Zucchini,
I'd be interested in knowing if Dave Dee's course helped you and how? Thanks, Gerry |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10587 Posts |
I think Dave's material helped many in the sense that it was one of the first information courses designed and packaged for magicians, in what today has become standard format. I would say the same for it's content. Much of it is standard fare by today standards, and has been duplicated or influenced many of the subsequent courses and programs available.
It broke things down into segments. It combined applying these segments with taking action to reach desired goals. It offered some newer-fangled marketing steps and concepts that created interest at the time. Being specifically targeted to magicians, was part of it's marketing and positioning brilliance at the time as it had not been done on such a level, in such a format. It created a buzz. He marketed it well and it was effective and profitable for him. I think in that sense it helped many - originally. But when many only applied parts of it, or "adapted" it to their business, it might not have had the full impact or results some desired, therefore deeming it in some opinions as over-hyped, less-effective and not as results producing as expected. Those that did work it correctly did have better results. This resulted in the original "you get out of it what you put into it" style of course and learning. |
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The Great Zucchini Inner circle 1347 Posts |
Mindpro, wow. That was said exceptionally well. I was like everyone else, trying to figure best way to get word out, etc.When I bought his course, I was in very early stages and was still figuring out how to get more word of mouth, etc.
I think in the beginning, he got me really pumped up. He can sell ice to Eskimos. I think I would probably disagree with lots of his stuff now, after paving my own way, but I do remember him talking about in-show-marketing, which I'm always going to agree with. This was 20 years ago, don't remember much else. My memory is horrible. |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10587 Posts |
I agree. His greatest achievement I think was starting to get magicians to think in a business and marketing sense. Also that selling your show required more than just placing an ad in the Yellow Pages or a kids/family/parents magazine and waiting for the phone to ring. To be proactive and aggressive. To begin to think of your performing as a business.
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Starrpower Inner circle 4070 Posts |
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On 2014-01-03 08:49, Mindpro wrote: I don't know if that's true. There have been a lot of marketing books for magicians that pre-date Dee. As for audio recorded marketing materials, Brian Flora had audio cassettes in the mid-80's, and a little later Sammy Smith came out with his "Make It Happen" set. As for mixed-media, my own "Money In Your Pocket" series had 6 volumes of recorded material with printed support material and that debuted in '91. These are just a few that pre-dated Dee. He had massive marketing using full-page ads that may have been new to magicians, but as for a course designed for magicians, he was an also-ran. |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10587 Posts |
Yes, that's what I was referring to that Dee's was one of the first "guru' type courses targeted to magician's. The others were more resources than full-blown courses as we know them today, accompanied by seminars, upsells, and the massive marketing that was also part of this.
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Gerry Walkowski Inner circle 1450 Posts |
There were many before Dave that touched on the subject. Just a few that come to mind are Donn Davison and many of his booklets, a circa 1980 periodical called "The Advertising Magician," and a quarterly publication called "Marketing Magic."
Starrpower is right that Brian Flora, however, was really one of the first to continually plug magic marketing with a series of tapes and booklets. In many ways, he was ahead of his time in his thinking. One must remember, though, back then information just didn't travel as fast as it does today. A lot of this was in the pre-computer, pre-email, pre-YouTube days. Flora also wasn't mainstream. You sort of had to go seek him out and to me, that was a good thing. Today though, as Ricky Jay often says, "Magic is too accessible." Even Dave credited Brian Flora for a lot of the information that he repackaged. Maybe there were others, but I seem to recall that Brian was one of the first to release a videotape on offering a magic class. It's also possible that Flora also hit upon the goodie bag idea, although I won't swear to that one. When Dave came along, he "aggressively" starting pushing the whole magic marketing concept. I also think he told a lot of tales along the way, and I also thought some of his methods were borderline unethical, but sometimes he hit upon a few good things here and there. Many magicians jumped on the bandwagon and started offering multiple show packages, began offering B.O.R., started offering goodie bags, and floating birthday children with Super-X suspension illusions. He was also the first, or one of the first, to offer magic marketing boot camps. Heck, guys like Eric Paul and Brad Ross were his students, not that there's anything wrong with that. Then, a lot of wannabes came along. I already mentioned Eric Paul and Brad Ross. Jack Turk took over Dave Dee's line, so I'm not really including him here. But many more have come and gone. Mindpro and others are right in saying that many others started repackaging Dave's stuff, although Dave took many of the ideas directly from Dan Kennedy. These other guys were the one-hit wonders. It's been an interesting circle of magic marketing life. Starrpower, I do recall your stuff as well. I believe your articles and products pre-dated Dave Dee, correct? Anyway, that's a decent history of magic marketing here in the states from 1970 - 2013. Gerry Posted: Jan 4, 2014 08:28 am Sorry, I forgot about Sammy Smith. What I said in my above posting is pretty accurate, although I'm sure I missed a few here and there. Thanks, Gerry |
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Starrpower Inner circle 4070 Posts |
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On 2014-01-04 08:23, Gerry Walkowski wrote: Yes, they did. As I said, the first volume in Money In Your Pocket was released in '91. I believe I started writing for MUM in '95 or so. My column ran for 7 years. John Kaplan, a Canadian, released a couple of programs about 15 years ago. They were very specific and narrow in scope, but also very complete. I just ran a Google search and apparently the Fundraising program is still available! He also sold a Santa Claus program (I have one on Beta video! LOL!). It was pretty ambitious stuff, and really only usable for a guy with a big show, but it was also very good material. |
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Gerry Walkowski Inner circle 1450 Posts |
Starrpower,
It's must have been MUM where I saw your articles. I greatly enjoyed your writings. Any thoughts about updating your works and rereleasing them? PRETYY PLEASE? Yes, John has put out some good stuff. Gerry |
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Starrpower Inner circle 4070 Posts |
I have been thinking about it. While most of the material is still valid, some of it is a bit dated as you might expect after 20+ years. I was thinking about re-recording the 4 original volumes with updates and releasing them as a single audio download (if I can find a good online distributor. The one I was using for my Radio Magic material went belly up). When there is no physical CD to duplicate, store, and mail, the information can be dispensed more efficiently. I also had two follow up volumes, including the Restaurant audio recording which I think is a really good value to someone wanting to break into restaurants. The other volume that I think was overlooked (maybe people are afraid to try it?) was the Publicity Stunts volume.
Some people prefer audio learning as they can listen while driving and such. Other prefer the written word. I suppose the best solution would be to provide it in dual format, but that would be a LOT of work! |
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Gerry Walkowski Inner circle 1450 Posts |
Starrpower,
Years ago weren't you in the midst of offering a magic marketing boot camp, for lack of a better term? If so, what about that information as well? Gerry |
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Michael Messing Inner circle Knoxville, TN 1817 Posts |
I still have "Money In Your Pocket" the complete set! (It's been a while since I listened to it.)
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