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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Looking out for our own » » Amazing Randi (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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drkptrs1975
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I agree.
mormonyoyoman
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Quote:
On 2006-02-19 18:41, Payne wrote:
Millions prayed for the goodwill of the last pope. He still died.
Over the years people have, against my wishes, prayed for me for various reasons all to no avail. Thus the time and effort it takes to pray would have been better spent on more productive things. Send him a card, make a donation in his name to a charity of your choice. Prayer, well it's the least you can do.


No wonder it's hard to take atheists seriously. As one who has done a significant amount of work for homeless veterans, I know that it's the ones who pray who are most likely to "send...a card, make a donation" and make a difference. The ones who said "to Hell with the homeless" were the avowed (and loud) atheists.

*jeep!
--Gran'pa Chet
#ShareGoodness #ldsconf
Magic Arty
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I think Payne comes to this site, not to fight, (that seems like a front), but because the Holy Spirit is calling him. As much as he says he hates Christians, I think he hates hypocracy instead. The love of Christ is moving on his heart, and he is finding it impossible to get away from.
In the mean time My prayers still go out to Randi.
Arthur
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Bill Palmer
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Payne is a Skeptic. Since he is, his posts in this forum are by their very nature going to call us to task. That's fine. We just need to know who we are dealing with.

But I also pray for all my skeptical friends.

The fact that the pope died "in spite of our prayers" means very little. When your time is up, you are going to go. End of story. I'm sure that as many of the pope's followers prayed for him to have a quiet passage and a happy reunion.

It's very easy to become a skeptic when you see the hypocrisy of some people. We tend to lump all people of a kind together. It's human nature. So non-Christians will tend to assume that all Christians are like, say, Jimmy Swaggart, Jim Bakker or Pat Robertson. They aren't. They are just high profile people who have taken up that label.

If I judged everyone of a kind by the worst example thereof, I wouldn't like anyone. I would hate Yankess, Southerners, ALL the races (including mine), rich people, poor people, every religious denomination, and members of every possible business.

A friend of mine used to say, "You can't judge all the members of a particular group by the actions of one member...the magic number is three."
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

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Magic Arty
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Bill, That is very well put.
Arthur
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illusions & reality
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Hi Bill,

I didn't know that you were a follower of Jesus Christ. I just thought that you were a good guy. I still think that you're a good guy! Nice to know that you're a friend and a brother!

Thanks for communicating your heart clearly.

Warm regards,
Lou
Neale Bacon
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I think that even Randi would appreciate the gesture of sincere people praying. We know it is much more than a gesture, but if it genuinely and sincerely done with no all-too-typical hypocrisy, I think he would appreciate knowing we care.

He can appreciate people who care even if he doesn't agree with WHY we care.
Neale Bacon and his Crazy Critters
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God-glorified
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Friends, I am encouraged and broken hearted at the same time with this post. I do not promote a "holier than thou" attitude, for I am merely a VESSEL for the use of my master Jesus Christ. But I have been somewhat hurt by some of the things that I have been reading.
I believe the Bible is the Holy Words of God and direction towards HIS people. THe Bible says that "There is ONE God, and ONE mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus." Understand, that if you do not have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ you can not expect for God to hear your prayers and respond according to your desires.
ROSSMACRAE, you said that you are not a big believer in prayers. I can see why you say it but I feel that you say it because you are a little confused. Prayer is not mere morals BEGGING for God to do something. Prayer is a REQUIRMENT for believers to communicate with God, the one who created us, not just to complain to HIM, but to praise and thank HIM. You can not have a relationship with anyone without communication, why should our CREATOR be any different?
Philippians 4:6 states: Philip. 4:6
Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.
Philip. 4:7
And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

We do not pray so that our prayers may be answered according to what we desire, but merely lift our request to HIM so that we may have the peace that God will work HIS PERFECT plan. Yes HIS way is PERFECT.
Romans 8:28
And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

Some of you were stating earlier that GOD did not answer your prayers when others have prayed for you. If you are a Christian and this is still the case, we have this piece of Scripture to hold on to. Though we may not see his reason for HIS decisions, we may know that all work for good, if we desire what HE wants.
We are being distracted of the true problem here. If Randi was in this terrible situation, we should, yes, be praying for HIS health, but more importantly earnastly pray for HIS salvation as the ONLY way to heave as a doctor would care for a patient's fatal disease discarding a splinter in his finger.
John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Prayer is not the LEAST you can do but the FIRST thing that must be done. God answers prayers according to HIS purpose and plan, I pray that HE directs me to acknowledge HIS will for my life so I may not miss an opportunity to better serve HIM.
I pray for Ranie's salvation and HIS healing hand upon him until he comes to the Father's saving knowledge as that is the LORD's will. Thus says the Bible.
God bless you all and I hope I have not offended the sincere yet poked at the confused merely for a realization and not for a judgment.
Roger
Ephes. 2:8-9



For by GRACE are ye saved through faith; and that NOT OF YOURSELVES: it is the gift of God: NOT OF WORKS, lest any man should boast.
Clifford the Red
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Quote:
On 2006-02-20 13:43, mormonyoyoman wrote:
Quote:
On 2006-02-19 18:41, Payne wrote:
Millions prayed for the goodwill of the last pope. He still died.
Over the years people have, against my wishes, prayed for me for various reasons all to no avail. Thus the time and effort it takes to pray would have been better spent on more productive things. Send him a card, make a donation in his name to a charity of your choice. Prayer, well it's the least you can do.


No wonder it's hard to take atheists seriously. As one who has done a significant amount of work for homeless veterans, I know that it's the ones who pray who are most likely to "send...a card, make a donation" and make a difference. The ones who said "to Hell with the homeless" were the avowed (and loud) atheists.

*jeep!
--Gran'pa Chet


Wow! What a sweeping generalization and bigotted remark! And not true in my experience.
"The universe is full of magical things, waiting for our wits to grow sharper." Eden Philpotts
Payne
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Quote:
On 2006-02-20 13:44, Magic Arty wrote:
I think Payne comes to this site, not to fight, (that seems like a front), but because the Holy Spirit is calling him. As much as he says he hates Christians, I think he hates hypocracy instead. The love of Christ is moving on his heart, and he is finding it impossible to get away from.
In the mean time My prayers still go out to Randi.
Arthur

When have I ever said “I hated Christians”?
I’m sure that I would get on swimmingly with most people here on this board and I’m sure all of you are the type of Christians this world needs to see more of.
I just feel that it is a great disservice to Randi to pray for him.
He is a man who has devoted a great deal of his life to the pursuit of science and to promote rationalism and critical thinking. He has relentlessly campaigned against superstition and magical thinking thus to resort to such behavior, unsolicited, on his behalf is to dishonor the causes for which he fights.
If you wish to pray for those who ask, or whose friends or family have asked that is one thing. But to pray for someone who has not asked, nor would they ever ask because they do not believe in such things I feel is inappropriate.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
triadsong
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My prayers are with him. He's always been one of my heroes. I can respect his personal beliefs and wish him a speedy recovery.
Vinny
sdgiu
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Payne (and everyone else)
I love my Dad-earthly father, and talk to him every day. I also love God-my heavenly father, and although I use a cell phone to talk to my Dad, because it's long distance, God is right here with me, so I talk to him all day long. Every once in a while we talk about people. Sometimes your name comes up Smile (and why you hate Christians Smile Smile just kidding, I understand what you are saying).

I figure as long as we're talking anyway, I might as well mention things that friends ask me to talk to him about. I talk to him while I'm driving, on the computer, walking, working around the house, etc... you get the picture. He is my Friend, and I NEVER consider it a waste of my time to talk to a friend. About Anything, at Anytime.

Your Friend
Steve Smile
Ps I do all this talking quietly, or to myself when people are around, so as not to end up having people wonder about me. Just in case you wondered. Smile
mormonyoyoman
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Quote:
On 2006-02-20 23:49, Clifford the Red wrote:
Quote:
On 2006-02-20 13:43, mormonyoyoman wrote:
No wonder it's hard to take atheists seriously. As one who has done a significant amount of work for homeless veterans, I know that it's the ones who pray who are most likely to "send...a card, make a donation" and make a difference. The ones who said "to Hell with the homeless" were the avowed (and loud) atheists.

*jeep!
--Gran'pa Chet


Wow! What a sweeping generalization and bigotted remark! And not true in my experience.


Nope, Red. My actual experiences in working with the homeless and raising funds for veterans. Your mileage may vary, but my 50+ years experience is that atheists tend towards the self-centered and bigoted. I was once in that camp myself, and I know where you're coming from.

Isn't it interesting that when someone identifies bigotry, the "offended" party accuses the other of bigotry?

*jeep!
--Gran'pa Chet
#ShareGoodness #ldsconf
Payne
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Well I haven't worked in a soup kitchen but I give to food and clothing drives, donated money to Tsunami relief and have been known to donate a show now and then to worthy causes. I don't do as much as I should I suppose but I'm far from a self centered bigot.

Bill Gates, an Atheist has several foundations that do charitable work around the world.

Ted Turner, another atheist too has donated billions to world wide relief efforts.

I'm sorry that the atheists you encountered were in possession of the selfish gene. I assure you that we are not all cut from the same cloth.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
Magic Arty
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Payne:
I am sorry I accused you of hating Christians. You never did say that. I was wrong to make such a statement.
Arthur Atsma
atsmagic
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Feeling real happy now!
Neale Bacon
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My understanding is that Randi has always fought frauds and rightly so. I don't believe he has ever "gone after" people who are sincere in their beliefs.(ie Billy Graham)

I still say, with respect to Payne, that Randi would not be bothered by sincere people praying for him if it IS genuine and done with love and respect.
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Terry Holley
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Randi mentions prayer in this interview. I cut and pasted this from the whole. It is found on http://www.ghostvillage.com/legends/2003......03.shtml

************

When trying to prove or disprove the existence of the supernatural, you are shaking the very foundations of people's belief systems. Questioning the validity of religion, for example, is something that many people don't take kindly to. After all, some people partially define who they are by their religion. So does religion have a place in our society? "Yes, a lot of people absolutely require it," Randi said. "They haven't got the faith in their own abilities, they fear the future, and they are very hesitant to assume that anything that they can decide will be better than some deity who knows everything. Of course, my argument is if the deity knows everything, he would have told you. Not only that, if he's omnipotent, nothing you say or do in the way of prayer is going to change his mind, and since he's omniscient, he already knows whether you're going to pray and what you're going to say when you pray. It just doesn't make any sense at all to me."

*************

And if you go to this link, you will see more of his thoughts on prayer from his newsletter.
http://www.randi.org/jr/2006-01/010606netherlands.html#i13
I cut and pasted the following from the last three paragraphs.

*************

And I must note here that when the first news came out on the NBC-TV Today Show about the disaster, the governor of West Virginia began his comments with “Here in West Virginia, we believe in miracles, and we’re praying for the miners.” When the first report was made that all 13 had survived, people were quick to attribute it to God. One miner's young wife, 27, clutching her baby girl, said, "It just shows you enough prayers went out. It's a miracle." And, President Bush said, “We send our prayers…” On that same program, there was an item about a woman who’d won a huge lottery prize. The first words out of her mouth were, “God has answered my prayers!” Forgive me for not grasping the situation here: are we to believe that God ignored all the prayers for the trapped miners because He was busy arranging for that woman’s lottery number to be chosen? And to the young mother: do you suppose there weren’t quite enough prayers, or your husband would still be alive, and is that the miracle you cite? God allowed the miners to die because the pleas for mercy directed at Him weren’t properly phrased, while the lottery winner’s prayers were better formulated? Just what are this deity’s priorities?

Maybe He doesn’t care, at all.

Maybe He isn’t there…

*************

Terry
Co-author with illusionist Andre' Kole of "Astrology and Psychic Phenomena."
God-glorified
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I hope Randi will read my post. Not to be self centered but there is a lot of answers to many concerns.
Ephes. 2:8-9



For by GRACE are ye saved through faith; and that NOT OF YOURSELVES: it is the gift of God: NOT OF WORKS, lest any man should boast.
Maro Anglero
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Bill thank you for letting us know, I will pray him.

Maro
For the Magician: The hard must become habit, The habit must become easy, The easy must become Beautiful



Doug Henning
sdgiu
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Hey Bill
Any updates on TA Randi's condition?

Terry

He is there, and He cares.

Not sure where you are coming from, but it is natural/automatic for "alot of us" to attribute good things to God.

Just because someone makes a loose statement with Gods name attached to it, doesn't necessarily mean that God personally took a hand in it, or actually had "Anything" to do with it.

Making silly correllations does nothing but confuse an issue. With math, correllations can be "Proven" that 1+1 doesn't equal 2. That doesn't actually make it so, it is just a silly math trick that people with too much time on their hands have come up with, to amuse other Mathematicians.

Stuff happens that we don't always understand. It's good to know that God does understand.

Steve
PS continuing to pray for him.
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