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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » I'm a real boy! » » Vent needs help... (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

AndyChil
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UK
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Hi, I've been having a go at venting for about a year and am doing ok. However, I am still finding Bs and Ps really hard.
Any tips?

(I tried out the link to the Axtell page someone recommended in October but I still cant quite get this.)

Andrew
jlibby
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Inner circle
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Bs and Ps are tough. I'll be happy to help if I can. Can you tell me more about what specifically is giving you problems?

See ya!
Joe L.
International Motivational Speaker & Entertainer; Helps you get ROCK-STAR RESULTS for your event!

For your gifts and free trainings, visit:
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AndyChil
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UK
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Finding both of them really hard to say at all. At the moment, am using very few Ps in my scripts and completely avoiding Bs where possible!! Smile

Andrew
harris
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Harris Deutsch
8663 Posts

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Try http://www.axtell.com

for a link to Ax's site.

I suggest you concentrate on character development. Send an email to

harris.deutsch@leesummit.k12.mo.us and I will
send you a worksheet.

Regarding lip movement on "plosive letters".

This is hard to explain in print.

I use my tongue as a lip. At least that is
what I picture in my head.

My lip movement has improved over the last 20 + years, but more important is the characterization and keeping the puppet alive.

I just got Zelda, an Axtell Chimp. She will
not say a word for now (if not always) yet
I hope she will develop a specific sub character text. (what ever that means - LOL)

Write me at my school address if you want any more details.

I love to discuss vent work.

Harris
Harris Deutsch aka dr laugh
drlaugh4u@gmail.com
music, magic and marvelous toys
http://magician.org/member/drlaugh4u
AndyChil
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UK
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Will e-mail properly tomorrow. Have just sent you my address (it's late here).

What are the Axtell figures like in real life? Had a look at the people but they looked rather plasticy/artificial on screen. Didn't really look convincing - prefer the look of softer figures like the ones from OneWay that I've seen.

Andrew
DanTheMagicMan
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Edgewater, Maryland USA
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The heads of the Axtell figures are made of latex. I think Axtell's use of latex makes a very fine puppet. I have "Vern" and it always gets a big reaction from the kids. I prefer the animal puppets and don't have any of the people puppets, but if I were to choose one, I would pick the storyteller. The expressions you can make with his face are amazing. There are video clips of several of his puppets (including the storyteller) at the web site.
Dan The Magic Man
e-mail:[email]info@familymagicshows.com[/email]
web site:www.familymagicshows.com
MagicEvents.org - View or subscribe to upcoming magic events and birthdays.
Budihaha
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Bandung - Indonesia
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Yes, Bs and Ps are tough.

But if you use substitution letters and the word is very common, the audience will get it, don't worry. Examples: for bottle say gottle or dottle and pencil say tencil.

Hote this helts. Smile
Budi H. Hadiwarsito
Bandung - Indonesia
www.budihaha.com
docdazzal
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San Tan Valley, AZ
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Hi Andrew,

One of the best courses on Vent is the Maher Vent Course http://www.maherstudios.com
In this course they give you some very specific and helpful suggestions for saying very clearly the "B's" & "P's" and it isn't at all difficult to grasp. With a little practice you'll have down in no time.

Continued good luck.

Best Regards,
Doc Dazzal
Dr. Dan
Dr. Dan
Metaphysician, Readings, & Mentalism
www.drdanandco.com
Matthew Kimbro
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D.C.
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The absolute BEST video to watch and study is the Paul Winchell: Ventriloquist for Fun and Profit. He shows a NICE camera shot of his actually touching his tongue to his alveolar ridge to create those sounds.

With some dedicated practice you will be making these sounds in NO time. Trust me though, and check out that video.

Now.....I know this is going to confuse you more, but there are some great substitutions if the B or P is in the MIDDLE of the word.

Use a "G" for B (yep..the old way) or "K" for P.

Example: Open could be pronounced as Oken..and sound great. BUT...if you start the word with "P" then the Winchell method is perfect. He says he doesn't use a substitute, but using his method and a "T" (which is basically what he is doing) for the P...and it will sound perfect with practice.

Example2: With the B, to start off a word with B, then use the Winchell method and the "D" (w/ Winchell method) for the B. Again, with practice it will be perfect. BUT...if the B is in the middle of the word, use a G produced in the back of your throat and it will sound perfect.

Confusing? A little...but once you learn to instinctively combine these substitutions you'll amaze yourself. Remember - practice, practice, practice.

I often chat with Rick Morse on the phone, and he is one of the few I've known who can use the "G's for B's" and the "K's for P's" in all cases and sound perfect. I personally like to do a mixture of substitions depending on the word. Rick does a "flawless" Danny O' Day and Farfel impression as well. I've yet to figure out which vent we're going to prank call with that one.

Hope this helps!
olivertwist
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Nashua, NH
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Another neat trick I learned from Pete Michaels is to de-emphasize the labial when you say it. Use whatever substitution you like but make the labial a little softer than you normally would say it.

Ultimately you don't want to be saying 'gottle' or 'keter' so spend 15 minutes a day practicing one labial for a week. Experiment with positioning your toung moving it different ways, pulling it away from the teeth as you say the labial. Eventually you will find a way to make a 'B' sound and 'P' sound. Once you find a way that works for you, it will be easy from then on.
rickmorse
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Flushing, MI
131 Posts

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A word on the G and K substitutions: they will ALWAYS sound like G's and K's to the vent. But try using them and tape record your progress: you'll soon learn what sounds like a substitute to you sounds just right to the audience!

Still, I admit I have more confidence in the modified D and T--modified in that the tip of the tongue just touches the back of the front teeth at the gum line, then is popped down when making the sound. Is that clear? Those who teach using D's and T's without explaining the tongue tip's position do a disservice, IMHO.

Videos and DVDs demonstrating the proper technique include Paul Winchell's, Col. Bill Boley's (hard to find now), and Mark Wade's.
Matthew Kimbro
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Quote:
On 2006-03-11 11:24, rickmorse wrote:

Still, I admit I have more confidence in the modified D and T--modified in that the tip of the tongue just touches the back of the front teeth at the gum line, then is popped down when making the sound. Is that clear? Those who teach using D's and T's without explaining the tongue tip's position do a disservice, IMHO.



- Rick is correct. Try this to understand how the POP is supposed to feel. When creating a "P" sound....place the tongue in the proper position on the alveolar ride, and pressing a bit firmer than normal, use a "TH" for the P. So Peter would be THeter..but press a bit harder than you would normally press it for TH (hope this makes sense) and say the word. Record yourself so you can heard just how this sounds, and experiment. This works great for me, but everyone has to find what works best for them. Practice, practice, practice, practice. Don't forget though. All of the technique in the world doesn't make you funny!
harris
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Harris Deutsch
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The first 30 years are the funnest.

I remember asking my wife, what would I do, if my hands couldn't do magic.

She quickly replied, more vent in your act.

Harris "Still Learning after 30 years" Deutsch
Laughologist and Nearly Normal Ventriloquist
Harris Deutsch aka dr laugh
drlaugh4u@gmail.com
music, magic and marvelous toys
http://magician.org/member/drlaugh4u
BIlly James
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I'll be sticking my DVD on ebay within the next few weeks.

It's called 'Talk to the Hand'. Keep your eye on ebay and pick it up. It goes into great detail regarding the 'labial' letters and a whole heap of other stuff besides.

Cheers
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