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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Ever so sleightly » » Kurtz - Cups and Balls (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

Brian Roberts
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Can anyone give me some info on the Gary Kurtz Cups and Balls routine? I understand he covered it in a set of notes at some point. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Brian
Mr. Muggle
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I didn't know that he had a routine in print. I have some of Gary's lecture notes that I haven't looked at in years. I'll let you know if I find anything.
"Now you're looking for the secret... but you won't find it because you're not really looking. You don't really want to know the secret... You want to be fooled." - The Prestige (2006)
Brian Roberts
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Muggle,

Thanks so much for doing that; anything you can find would be great.

Gary mentions the cups and balls briefly in his booklet - Leading with your Head - his approach seems to give more importance to the balls appearing and disappearing, "or at least appearing to appear and disappear." Smile He gives less importance to cup moves, wand spins, and hand movements. I would think, like all of Gary's early work, he had streamlined the trick to it's essential elements only.

Cheers,
B.

P.S. Did anyone see him do it live years back?
P.S.S. I've also written Gary regarding his routine, but he is difficult to get hold of. Smile
Mobius303
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I aksed him about that when he gave a lecture here in 1995.
His routine is not in print and he is doing more metalism than close-up now so it may not ever be in print.
He said and demonstrated a great routine ...it is standard with his touches of psychology that are detailed in leading with your head.
Make it your own...if you understand his philosophy then it should be easy to do.
Mobius
Tilman
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I do not know whether the routine ever made it into print in English, but it was published in a German translation in the mid-nineties by BAT magic, that is the now out-of-business magic company of Alexander de Cova and Daniela Nagaba in Ludwigsburg, Germany. I own the booklet and after the weekend I can get back with more details, if still needed.
My memory of the routine is fuzzy, but here is what I remember: the basic structure comes from the Vernon routine. The main difference lies in a clever and surprising change in the disappearing and reappearing sequence at the beginning, a very good tip on where to keep the final loads without distorting the jacket, tips on how to double the number of final loads, but most importantly in explicit instructions on movement-coordination and routined-in spectator participation. The Vernon routine uses two hands, yours, the Kurtz routine uses your hands plus the hands of two spectators sitting at your sides.
Mr. Muggle
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Too bad it's not published in English (I'm still going through my lecture notes anyway). Gary has great insight into magic and how to get the most out of your efforts. Didn't he switch to mentalism after the issues with his seamstress?
"Now you're looking for the secret... but you won't find it because you're not really looking. You don't really want to know the secret... You want to be fooled." - The Prestige (2006)
Brian Roberts
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Thanks for all your help with this guys; there is a ton of insight in what you've all wrote. Please post again if you find out more information; I'm just glad to finally get some hints as to the way Gary would have thought about this trick.

Best Wishes,
Brian
Mobius303
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Sounds like a good reason for me to give hima call tomorrow ...I will let ya know what he says.
I will also ask him to drop in here to post either in here or on the secret forum if you wantr more detailed information.
I have been meaning to call him anyways and this is as good a reason as any other.

I am working on several C & B routines at the moment and am also looking at some of my notes I took when he was here ...need to ask about a card routine as well.
Something with his seamstress? He told me that he enjoyed metalism more now and the close-up was getting harder to market. He still does close-up just does mentalism more now. He never mentioned anything about his seamstress.
Later,
Mobius
Brian Roberts
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Mobius,

That would be fantastic! It's great that you have a connection with Gary, and can ask the questions; I really appreciate you doing so. Please do let us know what his thoughts are, either here or in a PM. I have taken your first posts advice as well; I've started to redesign my cups and balls routine, keeping in mind Gary's thoughts in "Leading with your Head." Funny, I've applied his thinking to other routines (coins and cards) but for some reason it didn't occur to me to follow the same path with the cups and balls. Onward.

So glad to know Gary's still doing close-up, as I'm sure a lot of the Café members are. Tell him he's missed in that particular area and that I'm sure there would be one heck of a market for any of his current thinking.

Best,
B.
Mobius303
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He was not around to answer the phone any of the times I called and I got his voicemail. It is in French ...he is currently performig Mentalism at Theatre St. Denis in Montreal Quebec. I also got his agents number but I figure he isn't working the weekends.
I will keep you posted if I can get more information for you.
Mobius
Mr. Muggle
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I went though my lecture notes and sad to say didn't find anything related to the cups and balls. I guess it's time to read 'leading with your head' again and see what I missed the first time around.
"Now you're looking for the secret... but you won't find it because you're not really looking. You don't really want to know the secret... You want to be fooled." - The Prestige (2006)
Brian Roberts
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Jay Sankey and David Ben are both here in town; I know they were close with Gary at one point; perhaps I can see if they have any insights. I will let you know.

B.
Simon Bakker
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Its funny, I have read 'Leading with your head' this week and wondered how beautiful his C&B routine must be.
I'm also very curious about his version of Mcdonalds aces, does anyone know if that's in print somewhere?
Brian Roberts
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Simon,

I've read LWYH again also; it's quite amazing how much of Gary's Cup an Ball tips are included. I didn't catch them the first time around as I was constanly thinking about coins and cards when reading the book.

The booklet actually states that he has writtten a set of notes on the C&B. It would be great to hear from anyone that has them.

B.

P.S. Amplified Ace Assembly is included on one of the International Magic DVD's. It's great!
Simon Bakker
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Thanks Brian!!

Will look into the ace assembly
Royce K.
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Kurtz's Cups and Balls routine WAS published in English in a booklet in the very early 90s. Kurtz wrote and produced the booklet, but decided against releasing it.

As far as I know, other than Kurtz himself, only one other magician and myself have this booklet. It is 20 pages long and details all his psychology on the routine as well as all the technical handling. The routine includes the colour-changing ball opening phase and the awesome 7 mandarin-orange finale.

Any other questions, please ask away...

Royce K.
Bill Palmer
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Technically, that means it is not published. Publication carries the connotation of a release to the public, in this case, the world of magic. So, although it was produced and printed, if it wasn't released, it wasn't published.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
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