The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The Gambling Spot » » Shuffle (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page [Previous]  1~2
tommy
View Profile
Eternal Order
Devil’s Island
15746 Posts

Profile of tommy
There was a little TV show on last night about shuffle tracking and card counting etc. There were a crew of guys that worked a scam but it only lasted a few months, they did well while it lasted: The casino assumed wrongly they were card counters and the casino started shuffling more often, which in fact suited them: They were in fact using the Drop Cut. So the more the casino shuffled the more opportunity they had to use it and their winnings multiplied accordingly. Sadley, you can not use it now as the casinos have changed the procedure.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Expertmagician
View Profile
Inner circle
2468 Posts

Profile of Expertmagician
It is my understanding that Shufflemaster has a new machine which shuffles cards by using a pin/needle. They have a computer with a random number generator which "randomly" decides which card position to push out into the "already shuffled pile".

For example, you take a deck of 52 cards and put it in the hopper to shuffle. The computer then generates a random number (let's say 5). So the needle will puch the 5th card from the deck in the hopper into the discard pile. This process is repeated untill random numbers push each card from the hopper into the discard pile.

If course, you can argue whether random number generators are really random....but, they will be hard to predict and this design will break up patterns/chusters of cards.

Sigh Smile
Long Island,

New York
JasonEngland
View Profile
V.I.P.
Las Vegas, NV
1662 Posts

Profile of JasonEngland
Expert,

Yes, these machines exist. Steve Forte appears to be the first person to suggest such a machine, but it was through a company called Casinovations that it actually came to be. The Random Ejection Shuffler was its name. Steve says he's disappointed somewhat with the overall size of the machine, but thinks it creates the best possible shuffle. The machines are not in wide use.

I was in Vegas 2 weeks ago and went in a dozen major properties. I saw zero RESs, and not too many more auto-shufflers on the blackjack tables.

Jason
Eternal damnation awaits anyone who questions God's unconditional love. --Bill Hicks
Expertmagician
View Profile
Inner circle
2468 Posts

Profile of Expertmagician
Jason,

I bow down to your expertize....I just recall seeing the technology talked about on a TV show and in a newspaper article. I may have mis-remembered ShuffleMaster as being the manufacturer....sorry.

I am glad the auto shufflers are out ... and are not being used Smile
Long Island,

New York
sodman12
View Profile
Special user
raleigh
601 Posts

Profile of sodman12
Soo I'm guessing that's a no on any video?
you can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all the time but never all of the people all the time.
Expertmagician
View Profile
Inner circle
2468 Posts

Profile of Expertmagician
I have never seen one....you best net is to go into casinos your selve and take notes or to take a "dealer training course".
Long Island,

New York
sodman12
View Profile
Special user
raleigh
601 Posts

Profile of sodman12
I think I might try that
you can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all the time but never all of the people all the time.
mxray
View Profile
Loyal user
276 Posts

Profile of mxray
Jason is right, tracking is still very viable in many modern casinos. I would have stopped playing blackjack long ago, if it weren't for tracking. The toughest part of tracking is getting a handle on your edge, if you are someone who wants to precisely bet their advantage, or "Kelley".

As to the original question, while many casino shuffles are commonly similar, there are many varieties on most basic 2-pass house shuffles that will substantially alter the results.
Some casinos use a straight 2-pass riffle shuffle, some use what's known among trackers as a 2-pass step ladder. Some put the discards (the cards left over in the shoe when the cut carf comes out) on top of the stack before shuffling and some do what's known as "plugging", where they divide the discards into groups and insert them into the stack in different places before they begin shuffling. All of these things great affect the outcome, even if the same basic routine is used.

As to shuffle machines, a few years ago, there was an effort among some counters to try to foster distrust of shuffle machines among the general blackjack playing public. In all honesty, this meant capitalizing on the superstitions that many recreational players harbor about things like people "someone messing up the order of the cards" , or someone "Taking their card" and other non-statistical voodoo thinking. One of of the popular favorites was to walk up behind a blackjack table with a shuffle machine ( of any type) and observe a bit. Then, when a dealer made one of those miraculous hands where he started out with a 5 or 6 up , hit half a dozen times, ended up with a 21 and swept the table, and say "Man, you'd have to be an IDIOT to play against one of those Deck stacking machines!" and then walk off. Of course, the shuffle machines are not "deck stacking" machines, you are just capitalizing of typical standard deviation of all blackjack play. But in the mind of the more superstitious, that's just enough to plant a seed.....
Something I do when I deal cards for a casino party company some evenings, is I do a couple of little demonstrations of false deals, false shuffles, and things like that. If it is at a blackjack table, I always conclude with telling players that if they can't see all the cards all the time, they would be wise not to sit down at that table. Again, just trying to plant the seed of distrust of shufflemachines in general...

The way to learn to track is to map shuffles out. The more shuffles you map, the better you get at it. After doing a lot of maps, you begin to recognize common shuffles and if you have playrd against them enough, have already memorized the post-shuffle sequences. This is especially good for someone who plays frequently at a local casino.

For someone wanting to begin mapping shuffles, I would recommend "Blackbelt in Balckjack" by Arnold Snyder as a starter. There is probably no one who (in print) has contributed more to tracking than "The Bishop".

MXRay
Expertmagician
View Profile
Inner circle
2468 Posts

Profile of Expertmagician
I used to use a combination of Kelly and Betting the adjusted count. I found that this was the most conservative way to go....but, had the downside of getting strong runs on the upside because the Kelley component would sometimes limit my upside "betting the adjusted count" strategy.

Boy...your bring be back years Smile
Long Island,

New York
tommy
View Profile
Eternal Order
Devil’s Island
15746 Posts

Profile of tommy
I read that some shuffle machines made by Shuffle Master Inc., are not so easy to find in casinos. First of all they are too expensive (the most expensive is about 20.000$), and they have been jamming. Sometimes it is necessary to call a specialized engineer to fix them.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The Gambling Spot » » Shuffle (0 Likes)
 Go to page [Previous]  1~2
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2019 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.11 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL