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TheAmbitiousCard Eternal Order Northern California 13425 Posts |
I like Vinny's Giggle Force as well. Fooled me.
Once someoen knows you're trying to force a card, you're sunk. This means your presentation is a concern.
www.theambitiouscard.com Hand Crafted Magic
Trophy Husband, Father of the Year Candidate, Chippendale's Dancer applicant, Unofficial World Record Holder. |
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Juble Veteran user 363 Posts |
As Frank intimates it's essential to give an air of "indifference" to the selection - it really must appear unimportant. One way I've got round this is to say something like "before we start (thus no trickiness has started yet) I'll have you pick a card". So far I haven't had a problem - as I give the impression that the ID of the card is irrelevant which couldn't be further from the truth.
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Matt Malinas Inner circle Transylvania 1367 Posts |
You should try the slip force. it is very convincing if done right. I use it all the time. or maybe you want to try some of vernon's material. he has some unusual forces but I think you'll like them.
if you are determined to make an effort then learn the classic force well. practice A LOT . all te best , -Matt
The masters make the rules, for the wise men and the fools
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taller8 Inner circle Olympia, Washington 1087 Posts |
I love Brads advice too. Reading your spec and being flexable is great advice. for a first trick, a force probably wasn't the way to go. I should have just moved into another trick.
I wonder if the rifle force does make a spec think you are trying to force a card? It seems innocent enough, but the magician really does have a good grip on that deck. I'll have to check out vinni's giggle force. Thanks for all of the input. Magicians keeping hobbyists from sucking |
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Kaliix Inner circle Connecticut 1984 Posts |
When I do a riffle force, I tell them to say stop somewhere and then run really fast through the cards, getting to the bottom before they have a chance to say stop. I then look at them and say, "say stop before I hit the bottom!"
Now mind you, I work mostly for my middle school students these days, but when I riffle fast at first, they are more concerned with saying it before I get to the bottom the next time. They nice thing is, if you are looking at them, you can time when it is they are going to say stop and have your riffle stop pretty close to where they actually call out stop. And I agree with what was said earlier, you have to act like it doesn't matter. If you act guilty, your chances of being caught increase.
The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel J. Boorstin |
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Simon Bakker Special user the Netherlands 587 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-03-02 18:17, Christopher Williams wrote: I would recommend turning the right as well as the left hand after the spec. said stop. Then hold the left hand packet above the right hand packet and thumb off the top card of the right hand packet. Now place the left hand packet on top of the right hand one and square the deck. Try it. You create the illusion that the card actually came out of the middle of the pack. It's quite simple, and I think (but that's just a personal thing) that that is the only convincing handling of the hindu force out there. |
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Marco S. Inner circle 1017 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-03-02 18:17, Christopher Williams wrote: Very nice variation. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Jay, I am not the one who said you shouldn't reherse you seem confused.
I was asking why Justin thought it was lame. Lets not be confused, I reherse ad libs.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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jezza Elite user 469 Posts |
I would have just done another trick improvising etc rub a dub or something (they never know what you were going to do )
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TheAmbitiousCard Eternal Order Northern California 13425 Posts |
One thing I should have mentioned is that everyone should own Paul Green's DVD on the classic force.
Watch the master as he does the classic force on people that know he's trying to force the card on them. Watch Paul openly hold out all the cards between his hands and the idiot takes the top card.... and it's the force card. bwaaaaa-haaa-haaa-haa!!!
www.theambitiouscard.com Hand Crafted Magic
Trophy Husband, Father of the Year Candidate, Chippendale's Dancer applicant, Unofficial World Record Holder. |
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JSBLOOM Inner circle 2024 Posts |
Combine the riffle and cleanly show you are stopping where they tell you then Halo Cut bottom card!
I can see why a Hindu might not fool unless you demonstrate pulling from middle showing different cards, but getting caught on a riffle seems a lot harder. |
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scorch Inner circle 1480 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-03-02 17:55, taller8 wrote: The riffle force can be really effective, but there is some audience management to deal with, and some subtleties regarding how to hide the discrepancy of the undercut. As far as the hindu force is concerned, I have no idea why anybody would even bother with it, especially the hindu bottom force. Other than the fact that it's really easy, I don't see much advantage to it, especially if you don't live in one of the countries that regularly do the hindu shuffle. Avoid hindu-anything! Especially the hindu bottom force. If you want to force the bottom card and want an easy but sure-fire method, check out John Bannon's Bottom Bluff Force (it's in Card College). It's just a swing cut, but because of a squaring action the spec loses track of which half is which. Vinny's Giggle Force is virtually the same concept. Much better than the hindu. I also second the recommendation for the criss cross force. It's surprisingly effective, good for forcing the bottom or the top card. But you don't want to do it more than once to any audience. |
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Eddini_81976 Inner circle 2183 Posts |
Well to me the Slip-Force as always been superior to the Riffle-Force. On the Hindu Force don't do the one where you flash the bottom card but rather the one whereas the bottom card is dropped on the top of the other packet. The best force is the under the spread cull force, even Darwin Ortiz (The best Card Worker Out There IMHO) prefers that to the classic force. I always have it 6th from the top. One sublety on the cull force is to say "Touch a Card as my thumb touches one" that way they won't touch the top card...etc. Obviously you don't say that until you've culled the card. It was just a sublety I thought of as at times people would want a card toward the top after I spread pass it. Anyway the Slip-Force (not riffle force), The Hindu-Force (With Bottom Card drop off is what I call it, and the under the spread cull force are the top three I use. Keep practicing. Ed, (Eddini).
"Treat Others As You'd Want To Be Treated" - Jesus Christ
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BarryFernelius Inner circle Still learning, even though I've made 2537 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-03-02 22:44, taller8 wrote: Forget about force technique for a moment. This is very interesting; you encountered two people in their 20s who decided that they weren't going to be fooled. The question is why did these people have this attitude? What was the situation; what was going on before you tried to show them a magic trick? Were you offering to show them a few magic tricks, or did the spectators ask to see some magic? If the spectators didn't ask to see the magic, how did you approach them? If the spectators didn't really want to see a magic trick, it is possible that they were looking for any possible way to bust you so that you'd leave them alone! (And I could be completely wrong. Maybe they did ask to see a magic trick.) Technique is just a small part of forcing a card. Forcing a card is all about attitude and audience management.
"To achieve great things, two things are needed: a plan and not quite enough time."
-Leonard Bernstein |
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scorch Inner circle 1480 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-03-03 11:50, Eddini_81976 wrote: I totally agree. After the top control there is no need to cut the cuts, no need for a break, it's totally burnable, fairer in appearance with the facing card remaining consistent, and there is no discrepancy with where the spectator chose to stop you. It's all-around a superior move, with the one downside of the cards talking just a little. But that is easily covered with patter if you're in a quiet room. |
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vinsmagic Eternal Order sleeping with the fishes... 10957 Posts |
The Marlow slip force that Jc w Wagner has perfected is on of the best handlings I haver ever seen.... the insertion of the thumb...
how ever there is still the noise factor but this means nothing it is a great force. But I still prefer my giggle force there is no need to even know what the the force card is if you choose and there is not angle or misdirection problems, Barry is correct you need attitude. vinny The giggle force was inspired by Paul Harris's giggle switch.. I showed this force to Paul several yeras ago and he loved it ..... I put this force out there to anyone who wanted to see it and I welcome good or bad feed back. I feel this force shpuld be part of any magicians arsenal... vinny |
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Marco S. Inner circle 1017 Posts |
I like the giggle force a lot. It is somewhat bold but to me also very effective. I recommend using it in your performance. Just give it a try.
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Ben Train Inner circle Erdnase never had 4639 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-03-03 11:41, scorch wrote: I've never been a fan of the slip force. All the work for the riffle force happens before the focus is on the deck. The only move, cutting to the break, is so well covered that in 10 years Ive only had 1 group ask to take a diffrent card. The slippforce on the other hand happens while the spectator is burning you!!! Let me make this clear, I'm not advocating one force over another, rather I'm giving my justification for using one over the other. Also in my forcing repetouir is the classic, the bottom deal force, and the hindu... Why would someone use the hindu? Well here's my reasons: first, its easy. while I'll use more difficult sleights, I still appreciate when a move is relativly easy. Second, it hides the back of the card. A good force where you don't see the back. This wasn't a great selling point for me though, because that's why I use the bottom deal force.... Third, and most important to me, it's the easy way to show a selection to a large group of spectators. The only other move to accomplish this was the dribble force, but I liked the simplicity of the hindu as well as the simplictiy in regards to getting ready. That's my reason.
If you're reading this you're my favourite magician.
Check out www.TorontoMagicCompany.com for upcoming shows, and instagram.com/train.ben for god knows what! |
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Father Photius Grammar Host El Paso, TX (Formerly Amarillo) 17161 Posts |
Well a lot of forces out there, some more difficult to do than others. Sounds like you simply needed more practice with the forces you attempted. But, one guaranteed force that always works is the magician's choice, and it is hard for them to mess that one up, no matter how difficult they are being.
"Now here's the man with the 25 cent hands, that two bit magician..."
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J Hanes Veteran user PDX, OR 317 Posts |
Dannydoyle,
Hi, thanks for calling me out in public... Quote:
On 2006-03-02 21:30, Dannydoyle wrote: Look it's the cold truth that all magic needs rehearsal, which is much neglected by newcomers because they're often only focused on the results of their sleights, and I was pointing it out to our aspiring friend. Good magic takes hard work even in the areas without instant gratifiacation. BTW, your assumptions about me, are baseless and immature. I'm sure you're great, you rehearse ad libs. Justin Hanes |
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