I have noticed a recent and disturbing trend here on the café, in the mentalist forums particularly. I do not understand why it has suddenly become en vogue to fish for routining, secrets, or information that we have otherwise spent hundreds if not thousands of dollars and hours to learn. This problem has become increasingly frustrating for me, and the other members of the café.

Generally I am not an outspoken person, but this needs to stop. If you are looking for a place to learn the craft – this is not it! This can not be your only resource for material. I am dreading the acts that come up from information assembled purely here at the café without picking up a single book, or doing a single stitch of practice.

A very big part of me hopes that the recent server growth the café needs to undertake leads to this site being a paid membership site. This would curb a great deal of the foolishness that goes on these pages. A lot of these posts and threads are a pure waste of bandwidth.

The motto of the café is magicians helping magicians, not magicians giving away their acts to non magicians and beginners. Truthfully everyone has to start somewhere. But there are many new additions to the café who do not seem to want to undertake the work necessary to be successful in this art. I will reiterate my advice on a previous post…

3: DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER OF THE Café:

If you're just coming on here for casual chat, that is fine -- but do not forget that some of magic and mentalism's biggest names come here and most of them are very helpful -- and love to share secrets, hints, ideas, etc. Do not come off as naive and abrasive, your first impression with these folks is important -- you don't want to burn a bridge when you can craft a possible mentorship.

2: DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER OF BOOKS

Books are the most valuable resource you will ever buy. You learn HOW to think and HOW to read a magic book. This is an acquired skill, and one which takes a ton of practice. Start with the basic books that we have outline for you here, these will help you to be successful. And don't be afraid to just get your feet wet at first. Mark my words -- taking up mentalism is like going to the gym. The first time you go -- you have to pace yourself -- otherwise you're going to either A) hurt yourself (ego), or B) Get frustrated with the material. And both of these instances will lead to you probably never coming back. Start SLOW!

1: DON'T OVERESTIMATE YOUR SKILL AS A PERFORMER

this is my number one piece of advice to you. I am not just referring to skill-- and yes, most of the moves in mentalism are quite simple, if moves at all. BUT -- mentalism is harder to perform then magic because presentation is the deal breaker. I would highly suggest you check out this book

http://osterlindstore.com/catalog/produc......16d25bed

as well as any of the other e-books by Mr.Osterlind. He is a credit to our art form, and has some very good advice that mentalists all over the world should read (and he is a member of the Café to boot!! ;-))

Presentation is the most important thing in mentalism. You need to not only have the audience willingly suspend their disbelief -- but you also need to be sure that they are on your side.

Imagine an unwilling and nasty audience at a mentalism program -- where they essentially are the show! It wouldn't work. If you have a "cocky" and "look what I can do na na na na na" attitude -- they ill pick up on this, and they will eat you alive. Nothing kills mentalism faster then an unresponsive audience. I would also suggest taking some acting lessons -- this will help you immensely. After all a magician (or mentalist) is nothing more then a man playing the role of someone who can do miraculous things. If you can act -- and believe, then your audience will believe right along with you.

I don’t want to go off on a rant here, or make it seem like I am being overly critical of the newly acquired members that the café has – but come on guys. This place really is going down hill – some one needs to speak up and let people know that this isn’t the way to go about things. We have guys coming on these boards asking to be sent copies of instructions! That is BS! I can not believe that that post was not removed and that person removed from the Café.

Secondly – what is happening now is a lot of us are VERY, VERY, reluctant to help out the new guys because there are so many lurkers, and people stealing routines (we all know you’re doing it). I’m calling out the newbies here, stop the exposure, and stop the ridiculous threads asking us to give away the farm, you know better!

I know this post is going to get me a lot of negative response – but I think I raise some very valid points. The café used to be a fun place to come; now we have mutiny about Remote Viewing, people peddling themselves, and newbies making life hard for the rest of us. What ever happened to my beloved café! Instate a pay membership for the café and save it!

DITTO!!!


Greg

I just think that if we had to pay for this service, a lot of the trash that goes on would no longer be an issue. People have devalued this...

You have a great point.

I would not mind an annual fee. Heck, probably like many of you regulars, I just donated.

Tony

Icy_Rabbit

I agree with both posts.

I think that after a few constructive posts (and it took me a while before I could post anything constructive), the members will notice who is genuinely interested and has done his homework and then via PM (or other methods) private communication between people can start.

Sincerely, Matt

You have another vote from me. It is very concerning seeing some of the information flying through this forum to people who simply ask "How is this done?". Yes, we all have to start somewhere and I wish I had something like The Café to turn to for resources, but starting in this art and simply just wanting to know secrets are two completely different animals.

Helping others get started is fine and, if the interest is genuine, should be encouraged. Openly giving out information to just anyone who asks on a public forum is intollerable.

Shall we petititon this to steve?

Heck,

That is part of this place.
Help not secrets exposed exept in the (closed forums) even then I have a problem with it.

Point a person in the right direction.
Tell them via PM how to find what they are looking for.

I think we can take care of it ourselfs.

After all we are to be mentalists!

Just my opinion

Jim

Sorry, maybe my frustration is just getting the best of me...

I understand most do who have paid in time and money for their information.

Jim

My thoughts the other day. I was debating whether or not to email Steve and suggest that I would be willing to pay a subscription fee just like I do with Magic mag or Genii.

John

I say lets do it.

I agree with Jim, but maybe a membership fee would make sence, as the costs are rising for Mr brooks.
I think when epoepl ask , 'how does he do that' I havn't seen any method exposed on hre by the 'people that know'. noramlly they are pointed to wher the information is present.
I think a lot of the current interest in mentalism is from the UK and it the derren brown effect, however this will die out slowly, and lets face it, most who want to knwo how it is done, are never gonna make decent mentalists anyway.

I have appreicated the Café and its memebers for all their help. I started at zero about a year ago with mentalism, and without the Café I would not have grown the point I am at now, but I still use the Café as you all know to learn from. that's why I think a membership fee would help. It would also put some extra value to the advise being given.

And even if this memebership wasnt going to be Café wide, I wopuld still be happy if just the mentalism forum part was. And the cost per year would be miinmal.

But jim is also right, we can control what is given out on the forum and the use of PM would stop any infor getting puiblic so quickly.

regards
steve

I am rallying to make this a pay service and site. That will help immensly!

I agree, to a point. I think the first thing that would change things the most would be to outlaw pseudonyms. Real names would do a great deal to shape people up, make people very polite. It would be an instant solution. I don't know of any other forum that doesn't allow fake names, so it might be a first.

It's an easy solution to making newbies polite. If they are in magic for the long run, they'll want people to like and help them. If they are little revolutionaries out to upset the status quo, ego before art,then we'll know soon enough their intents, and they'll be gone.

I say first: No Pseudonyms. They are unnecessary, have no real reason for being, and allow much mischief.

Not sure if it would then pay to advertise here.
(I know it would be a lot less traffic so I am not sure I would)

I am sure Steve would be considering the same thing.

Why would I pay for an add with the same circulation I could get in the Linking Ring on the Café'?

Once it is gone from here it is gone from here.
The hard copy add is there for as long as the mag stays around.

Jim

How do you vet it?

John

Tom,

I understand your point about people useing their real names, but some people like myself need to (for the time being) need to keep my actually name off this board.
Let me explain, while I am learning this art, I can do this in a controled enviroment,parties,friends etc,once you post on the web it is no longer a controled enviroment. Now if someone on this board knows me in my corporate life, the fact I have made it very clear that I am hoping to make this my full time occupation, could seriouly damage crediabilty within the company I work in,as one of the key players is thinking of leaving, this can have serious effects.
now this might sound extreme, but the same could be said for the office junior hoping to climb the ladder, if his bosses son knows him, how serioulsy will the bos take the OJ in his career?

just some food for thought

on jims point I hadn't seen it that way about the traffic issue. hourses for courses really. I wonder how much I generated from banneer adds? and how that would compare to the membership idea

regards

steve

I just think that we would solve a number of the problems we have been having as of late if we cut the head of this whole thing off and allowed the body to die! This way -- people who pay won't disrespect others, expose, etc...

How's this for hiding my identity while destroying my proffesional credibility!
Check out the pic!
~LOL~

Click here to view attached image.

I believe to take the steps Tom and others are advocating would make the Café a much less vibrant and interesting place.

More of a restaurant than a Café.

There does seem to have been an onslaught of negative emotions demonstrated recently, however a great deal of this has come from longstanding members.

People with only a passing interest will come and go, the information gleaned is forgotten along with last nights telly.

I will concede that it would do no harm to up the post count for secret sessions etc,

The Café has an audience, granted, perhaps it is worth taking this into consideration when posting, the likes of Jim Callahan Slim King and others recognise this and more often than not act accordingly.

If you wish to discuss matters that you don't want made public then set up an alternative invited member only club,

I don't think I would get past the bouncers.

Corona