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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The Gambling Spot » » It's not enough to be able to do it... (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Mr. Z
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Quote:
On 2006-03-04 13:27, tommy wrote:
Yes. Many see the casino cheater in a classical sense, an expert mechanic capable of amazing technical skill. Yet the truth is, in the majority of the most successful casino scams in our history, technical skill plays a minor role. It's all about the application.

Whereas a magician might be familiar with different false shuffles for controlling a slug, he may not know how such elementary technique has been used to scam millions. And, he may not realize that the most successful scams are not as spectacular as many think, that most involved massive conspiracies and inside collusion, that many employed the most blatant techniques imaginable, and so on.


That would be from David Malek's interview with Forte. Might want to cite it next time...
"...if you have to say you is, you ain't."--Jimmy Hoffa
tommy
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Sorry that is so, but I have cited it to the same people before not long ago. When speaking about the same subjest. I think they know as well as you who said it.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
bishthemagish
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Quote:
On 2006-03-04 13:27, tommy wrote:
Yes. Many see the casino cheater in a classical sense, an expert mechanic capable of amazing technical skill. Yet the truth is, in the majority of the most successful casino scams in our history, technical skill plays a minor role. It's all about the application.

Whereas a magician might be familiar with different false shuffles for controlling a slug, he may not know how such elementary technique has been used to scam millions. And, he may not realize that the most successful scams are not as spectacular as many think, that most involved massive conspiracies and inside collusion, that many employed the most blatant techniques imaginable, and so on.

Hey Tommy - speaking for myself I have to say that I have little interest in Casino cheating or beating the bank at a Casino. In fact I have never played any kind of card game in a casino. I have only done the slots while waiting for a show to start.

I have to say I am not much interested in a casino game of any time.

When I played cards it was in a hotel while on the road or at a person's house in small little games also in a few night club and pool hall rooms but that was a long time ago. I do not play card anymore. My interest in the poker card sharp moves is only for the use in magic. I find it interesting that magicians have an interest in this kind of thing at all.

In fact I think some magicians do have a good idea of casino cheating. But being a magician I don't see what use it is for magic. Erdnase is different he talks about the friendly little home games and how a single guy without a mob can do it with the right moves. I can see a use for what Erdnase wrote in his book. But see little use in using that in a card game because I don't play cards right now. But I would not sit in on a game in which I could not shuffle the deck or touch the cards.

I guess what I am trying to say or asking a lot of what is talked about has little use for magic. And the subject of casino cheating has even less use for magic and not that much use for an advantage player. Because I think - and I could be wrong - but doesn't most of the advantage playing go on outside the casino?
Glenn Bishop Cardician

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Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs
Vandy Grift
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Hey guys. I made that post for myself as much as anything. It's something I think about alot. And Glenn is right, I'm talking about the "nerve thing" and ALL of the things that are necessary to do your thing in real time in front of real people. Whether your thing is cheating at cards or doing magic for laypeople. It's about the study, practice and mental preparation coming together at the right time so that you can perform. Without hesitation, without screwing up.

That quote and the idea behind it is really just stating the obvious.

Bruce Lee once said something to the effect of "When my opponent expands, I contract, when he contracts I expand. And when the opportunity presents itself, I do not hit. IT HITS ALL BY ITSELF."

I'm striving to bring my card work to the level that will allow me to do it at 8:15 PM, Saturday Night at the Garden. And ALSO, to the level that when it's time to pull a move, I don't move. IT MOVES ALL BY ITSELF.

As Bish would say "Just some thoughts"

Vandy

CC, I was laughing at what you posted this weekend. I guess it is a bit funny to call the exact moment of decpetion the "moment of truth". But then again, our "Truth" is not their "Truth". The marks "Truth" is not the same as the cheaters and the audiences "Truth" is not the same as the magicians.
"Get a life dude." -some guy in a magic forum
bishthemagish
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Hey Vandy I am glad you posted it and I think it is one of the best points to read in the Café that has been posted all year.

The nerve thing is interesting and one of the things that stops many magicians from performing magic in front of an audience. The only way to get past this is to do shows lots of shows. But if you lay off the hand shaking comes back. Vernon talked about this a lot in his writings. And I talked about it with Don Alan who said he went through it at the start of every show.

He also said it was the sign of a true artist.

The interesting thing is that I think that advantage players have to deal with this when they move in a card table game - the same nerve thing the magician has to deal with. Vernon mentions this in Revelations in the section that holdouts are used. He said something like using drugs or booze to counteract the nerve thing when using these devices.

I think that is why drugs and booze have played a big part in show business. I have known a lot of show people that drank booze big time. Well I think they have the nerve thing and think they need the booze to get past it. To bad the booze also destroyed a lot of good acts as well.

Just some thoughts..
Glenn Bishop Cardician

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Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs
Danny Hustle
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Vandy,

Great stuff also a great book by Dempsey Championship Fighting: Explosive Punching and Aggressive Defense

A lot of the stuff in that book applies to a lot of things in life. I know it's where I learned the falling step.

Anyway, to expand and contract on what you said I think it is a bit easier to understand if it is put like this:

It's one thing to be able to do it in your living room it's another thing to do it because it's Tuesday night and you are being paid to do it. Oh and you feel like crap, your car died, and your wife your mortgage payment, and your girlfriend, are all a month late.

It is when crisis meets opportunity that we all get to see who's going to be a Sigfried and who's gonna be a Roy.

Yaknowwhadimean? Smile

Best,

Dan-
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Vandy Grift
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Danny,

I hear ya brother! That's what it's all about. You (me) have got to be able to deliver. No matter the situation, no matter what else is bothering you. No matter who is watching and what they may expect. As the gamblers here might say "when the chips are down".

You simply have got to be able to do it.

I'm gonna look for that book, I'm a pretty big fan of Dempsey. Have been ever since I was a kid. I'm very intrigued by this "falling step" you speak of. What's the deal there?

Vandy
"Get a life dude." -some guy in a magic forum
Danny Hustle
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The falling step is where Bruce Lee got his "One inch punch" That is where Mr. Lee claims to have gotten it anyway. It is also what gave Dempsey that devastating jab.

There are several old fights where Dempsey knocks his opponent out or in a couple of cases across the ring with a very benign looking left jab.

That is the falling step. It allows you to put all of your weight into movement and focus all that inertia behind the first two knuckles of your left hand.

Like a second deal or anything else worth knowing it takes a lot of practice but it is well worth knowing.

Best,

Dan-
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"MT is one of the reasons we started this board! I’m so sick of posts being deleted without any reason given, and by unknown people at that." - Steve Brooks Sep 7, 2001 8:38pm
©1999-2014 Daniel Denney all rights reserved.
Vandy Grift
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But, Danny, can you do it at 8:15 PM, Saturday Night at Madison Square Garden? LOL.

That sounds pretty cool. I recently saw somewhere on this site that Darren Brown was doing something with the one inch punch in his act. There was a video clip but I didn't watch it. Now I can't find it with the search engine down.

Vandy
"Get a life dude." -some guy in a magic forum
Andrei
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Vandy - in his video series, Derren achieves the one inch punch effect, while never touching the volunteer. It's very entertaining to watch.

Andrei
Vandy Grift
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A no contact one inch punch huh? Sounds cool. Are we talkin' stoogeville here?
"Get a life dude." -some guy in a magic forum
sodman12
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Indeed!
watch the guy he starts to laugh and his look on his face is like "no one is going to buy this dude"
you can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all the time but never all of the people all the time.
Andrei
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No stooging, just a load of peer pressure and social compliance, as well as people's willingness to pretend and not diappoint.

Andrei
sodman12
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Huh?
you can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all the time but never all of the people all the time.
card cheat
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He's saying it's a fake, no?
Andrei
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Not a fake per se. I mean, if you and your friends were there, and he'd try to do it on one of them, it'd probably work. Much like stage hypnosis shows, no real fakery, just a load of spontaneous self-b.s.-ing.

Andrei
Vandy Grift
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In other words, if he did it to me and I didn't want to move. I wouldn't move.

I'm not really the kind of guy who would try to screw up a magician. But if he did this to me, I wouldn't move a muscle. I won't screw a magician up, but I won't make a clown out of myself to make on look good either.

Vandy
"Get a life dude." -some guy in a magic forum
Lee Darrow
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Bruce Lee's One Inch Punch was anything BUT a one inch punch. The actual travelling distance of the punch was much more like seventeen inches if one taken into account the motion of his hips and shoulders BEFORE the hand moved (buildup of mass and inertia). This technique is called "Fa-Ging" and can create immense impact.

There is NO social compliance involved as the pressure measurements taken of Lee's punches at UCLA in the late 60's ran into the ranges in excess of 150lb of push pressure, which is in excess of Muhommed Ali's right hook, which came in at 124lb.

By the way, Lee-Sifu's right-hand punch in Enter the Dragon was modeled on Ali's left jab, just for the record. Watch the match with Bob Wall (O'Hara). It's so fast the camera couldn't catch it.

It is a trick of physics, but it does not violate physics at all.

Now, as to moving on Saturday night at 8PM - it's even tougher when the guy across the table puts a cocked .45 on the table and looks at you with a sneer. If you can move under those circumstances, you are a pro.

Lee Darrow, 3rd dan (retired)
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<BR>"Because NICE Matters!"
card cheat
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Quote:
On 2006-03-27 13:47, Lee Darrow wrote:
it's even tougher when the guy across the table puts a cocked .45 on the table and looks at you with a sneer. If you can move under those circumstances, you are a pro.


If you move... no, scratch that.

If you PLAY in a game in which you can find a cocked .45 on a table you just might be insane!

CC
tommy
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So do card cheats still use Derringers in the USA? All my life I have never seen a gun at a card table here in England, but I did see shotgums once, when a game was robbed.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
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