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card cheat
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Hasta la Vizzle, Fizzle.

CC
tommy
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Re: The JJ example.

Tricky is a word that springs to mind. If some one asked me to do all that in a high stakes game, my answer would be; What do you think I am, a magician!
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
card cheat
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Stacking, one peek, and one second deal?

It can be done, man. It simply all needs to be done at the right time, and in the right way. Then again, there are games in which even rolling the deck can get you ejected; maybe worse. You just have to find the right game, that's all.

There are plenty of games, filled with suckers, that are played for very reasonable stakes. Frat boys are some of my favorites, but the list goes on and on. Let's be honest, Tommy, we have both seen and probably done more daring things in card games.

CC
J Wessmiller
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Hey CC,
I have been using the stack, peek, second deal sequence that you briefly explained earlier in this thread for a few years. It definitely would get the money.
be well,
JW
Think you know Erdnase? Take my quiz

http://wessmiller.blogspot.com
card cheat
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Wess,

It is quite a powerful strategy in the right hands, indeed. Of course, there are many ways that something like this could draw heat. Bad calls are the absolute bane of impunity, and are more likely to be detected than even the sloppiest of seconds.

Sloppy seconds? Eeewwww....

CC
mook
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SETTING THE RECORD STRAIGHT:

I have already said this before, and I'll say it again:
Although I may wish I were him in some ways, I am NOT Sal Piacente, NOR am I Abracadizzle. I am, however, tight with Sal.

DOC,
I have asked Sal to chime in on the Café, but he's been too busy and says he has no interest (I think because he prefers to chat with people face to face and hang out- he's very friendly, as you know).
SO I THINK YOU OWE HIM A BIG APOLOGY!
He says that you guys go way back, and if that's true, you should know him better than that! Shame. Shame. If you only knew...
Doesn't the Bible say something about bearing false witness?

I, like many people here, enjoy magic, but am in the casino business, which is how I met Sal. I only talk about things I know about for sure (and will let you know when I'm not sure), which is why I tend to write when I see something wrong or see an opportunity to help a person asking for it. Sal told me that Jason England wrote to him and asked if I were him. Funny! Jason and I have exchanged blows, but unlike him, I only have one username. So if you want to reach me, PM "mook" and here I am.

Card Cheat,
We have corresponded via PM. Things don't add up because DOC got it all wrong!
tommy
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CC

As I have said, anything can be done given in the right circumstances. So it follows I do not argue that it can not be done or has not been done by anyone.


Wess

Quote:
On 2006-03-12 13:52, J Wessmiller wrote:
Hey CC,
I have been using the stack, peek, second deal sequence that you briefly explained earlier in this thread for a few years. It definitely would get the money.
be well,
JW


Intersting! I did not know that you, had ever cheated Wess. In what circumstances have you used this?

Tommy
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Unknown419
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Quote:
On 2006-03-12 03:39, Andrei wrote:
I would just like to say, that if Doc got the person right, then Doc's in the wrong business. He shouldn't be playing cards, he should be a detective.

Andrei


Andrei that's why I'm in the business that I'm in because I was complete wrong. I don't read people to well (know what's going on in their mind) except when I cold deck 'em.

I guess I have to get some books on reading tells from Meijin. Mike....Help!


Respectfully,

Doc
Abracadizzle
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I have been recieving PM's also fromm many of you. I am not Mook and I am not Sal. Like Mook, I am an old friend of Sal's. We still talk on an almost daily basis but I live hundreds of miles away. Please don't think Sal snapped on the Café. He would be more likely to read this and drive to your house to set a few things straight.
Unknown419
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Quote:
On 2006-03-11 23:30, Abracadizzle wrote:
Why peek if you can stack and why stack if you can peek... and why... WHY would you deal a second if you can stack?


Well, Wizzle, it's funny that a man of your, ahem, expertise would ask such a question. Let's look at some possible scenarios, this should be fun:

Why peek if you can stack?

Well, let's say that I spot a pair of Jacks and stack them up for the cutter. After I deal the cards, I get the signal from my man that he got pocket Js. Now, my job, is to see if I can get another Jack to hit the board (preferably the flop.) This is why I would peek even though I can stack. Someone as "knowledgeable" and as "experienced" as yourself already knew that though, and I am sure that this is why you asked the brilliant question that you did. Let's answer your other brilliant questions.

Why stack if you can peek?
That's a pretty weak question, man. Stacking is what gives you good cards, and peeking is what tells you what cards are coming. Think....

Now, for my favorite question of all:

and why... WHY would you deal a second if you can stack?
Remember the Jacks from the example above that we stacked up for the cutter? Good. Let's go back to the peeking part.

You peek and see that the top card is a Jack. What do you do? Burn the card that you want to hit the flop? No. You second deal the burn card and plant the Jack on the flop. Let's look at another example:

You culled, stacked and successfully dealt your cutter pocket Js. Now, as you check your own hole cards, you peek the deck. Let's say you are really getting after it and you go three, maybe four cards into the top of the deck. You see, from the top card down, 6,J,J. This means, if you have been following along, that your partner would hit quads. What do you do? Well, I imagine you would most likely let the two Jacks hit the flop. Me, I second deal one of those Jacks and let the other one hit. Quads can set fire to a scam real quick; too noticeable.

These are just several examples, I am sure that I have answered your question.

CC
[/quote]

As a teacher at Hard Knocks College for the Elite...CC you have just scored a 100% on your Q & A Test.

Fellow students you can't get this knowledge out of any gambling book (I guess except for here at the Magic Café) because it's not in any. This is knowledge that a gambler learn while doing hands on. This is also knowledge that does not readily be heard of unless asked and is normally forgotten to be asked when writing a book.

From what CC just stated is card and street sense of which I know through constant playing but this is why I said previously that it would be an honor meeting and learning from him. Why? Because I came in after being a magician like many of you here, I had the skill but no street nor card sense. His writing (or when someone talks) is what I hear in others to know that they are real players and not magicians. You can't know this unless you've been to the Mountain Top.

Clarifying Even Further

I hear CC's words and applications of moves which means he has had hands on training and he knows what he's talking about. Walter Scott in the book The New Phantom's of the Card Table makes me know just by reading the book that those were his words and stories and that he was for real.

Now meeting Gazzo, I know that he was taught by Scott and has everything down pat that was taught to him by him but by conversation he has no hands on experience or in other words he's not a gambler and if I'm wrong (I apologize) and he does, he has very little.

It should be noted that Gazzo never claimed to be a cheat he like Dai Vernon just went in search for one.

Signed

Doc
Unknown419
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Quote:
On 2006-03-12 15:18, mook wrote:
SETTING THE RECORD STRAIGHT:

I have already said this before, and I'll say it again:
Although I may wish I were him in some ways, I am NOT Sal Piacente, NOR am I Abracadizzle. I am, however, tight with Sal.

DOC,
I have asked Sal to chime in on the Café, but he's been too busy and says he has no interest (I think because he prefers to chat with people face to face and hang out- he's very friendly, as you know). SO I THINK YOU OWE HIM A BIG APOLOGY!
He says that you guys go way back, and if that's true, you should know him better than that! Shame. Shame. If you only knew...

Doesn't the Bible say something about bearing false witness?

Card Cheat,
We have corresponded via PM. Things don't add up because DOC got it all wrong!


LET ME SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT

THIS APPLIES TO WHOMEVER

I’m NOT GOD, I’m human like the rest of you and even though I’m a Christian (backsliding one) that doesn’t mean in the least that I don’t make mistakes.

Why do I owe Sal an apology? I don’t owe anyone an apology, I made an assumption of which I was wrong and that’s that and yes we do go way back but what does that mean? I re-met Sal through Steve Forte 13 years later besides the fact that people change with time how can you say that I should know him better than that? 13 years ago I would have told you that I would never be on the Internet talking like this but I am today so that doesn’t mean a thing as to what you’re talking about.

When I first came to the discussion forums I was arrogant, honest and direct but with the help of Glenn Bishop I calmed down; the streets make you hard. Why wouldn’t Sal be the same way? Sal is street, Mike Tyson is his idol, Sal used to box, I have him on video with a Mike Tyson shirt on and he lives in the vicinity of Cincinnati why shouldn’t I assume this especially being in the same thread as Sal’s DVD? I just assumed WRONG.

At this moment you’re conversating with my street side of which I don’t like but I need in order to be in the streets. My street side will not apologize because I did nothing wrong but make an assumption and made a mistake by doing so; now on the other hand my Christian side says, will it hurt you by doing so and my answer to it is no, so on that note “I APOLOGIZE.”

It Ain’t Over (Street Side is Back)

Answering These Here So Called Allegations

Quote:
On 2006-03-12 15:18, mook wrote:
SETTING THE RECORD STRAIGHT:

DOC doesn't the Bible say something about bearing false witness?


Yes it does and I’ll get a bible commentary definition for you so you can fully understand what it is that YOU THINK YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT but before I get it for you did you ever take reading comprehension 101 because if you did let’s go and find that teacher who passed you on to the next grade and get your money back. This is what I said and nowhere do I read that I lied regarding anything and that’s what bearing false witnessing is…

Quote:
Abracadizzle I HOPE THAT I'M READING BETWEEN THE LINES WRONG.. Again MY CONCLUSION IS AND I HOPE THAT I'M WRONG ON THIS … IF I’M WRONG THIS WON'T BE THE FIRST NOR THE LAST TIME I AM.

Respectfully (The Word Respectfully)

Signed

The Doctor

P. S. The only reason I said this is because you said let somebody here tell him so “I TOOK A WILD GUESS.”


Please note all of my highlighted words.

The Definitions

Conclusion. A decision made or an opinion formed after considering the relevant facts or evidence.

Guess. 1. to form an opinion about something without enough evidence to make a definite judgment. 2. to arrive at a correct answer or to conjecture about something. 3. to think or suppose something. 4. to form an opinion without knowing for sure. 5. to be correct in your thinking about what might be the case. 6. an opinion or answer arrived at by guessing. 7. an act or the process of guessing.

Bearing False Witness. This commandment may be transgressed in a public manner by untruthful witness borne in a court of law (Ex. 23:1)…This prohibition of the Decalogue is frequently violated by speaking evil of another, whereby his character is blackened, his motives misrepresented, and his reputation depreciated…This commandment may also be broken by those who remain silent when they hear an innocent man unjustly maligned. It can be broken by a shrug of the shoulder or by an arching of the eyebrows. Whoever tampers in any way with the exact truth, in order to gain personal advantage or for any other purpose, is guilty of bearing “false witness.” The suppression of truth that might result in injury to oneself or other-this too is bearing “false witness.” {7th Day Adventist Bible Commentary Gen. To Deu. Page 607}

With all of the dictionary and commentary definitions applied please re-read my above statement to see if I broke the 9th Commandment of the Decalogue that Mook is supposedly be referring to. In other words I want you (the reader) to be the jury.

Am I guilty or is his reading comprehension lacking?

Quote:

On 2006-03-12 15:18, mook wrote:
SETTING THE RECORD STRAIGHT:

…Things don't add up because DOC got it all wrong!


Quote:
Abracadizzle I hope that I'm reading between the lines wrong and if so I'll just shut up...

1. First off your words are too and I mean TOO STRONG (meaning one in an authoritative position), this means to me that you are an individual who really knows what he talking about and can do what he says he can do.

2. You mentioned in a previous post the word Cincinnati of which I know someone who lives there.

3. You mention Mike Tyson an idol of that same person that lives there.

4. You mention " 8 decks and Any Information" in one of your post a favorite word that that same person often uses who lives there.

5. You talk about Steve Forte as if you really know more than you should know about him of which nothing is wrong with that and that same person also lives in Cincinnati.

6. And quiet as kept you seem without words to be able to hold your own meaning that you can handle yourself. This same person gives off that persona that lives in that same place.

My Conclusion is and I hope that I'm wrong on this....IS THAT YOU ARE NO OTHER THAN "SAL" HIMSELF TALKING TO US and CC accidentally said something that made you go off.

Again if I'm wrong this won't be the first nor the last time I am.


If you’re talking about the above statement you’re right my conclusion (see above definitions) was wrong but nothing else? I guess that you’re not perfect either?

Mook/Readers I did nothing wrong but formed a wrong opinion about an individual. I see no reason why I should apologize to anyone but you called me a liar (which is wrong) saying that I bared false witness against my friend Sal of which I did not; and according to book definitions.

So in the words of a wise man, I BELIEVE YOU OWE ME A BIG APOLOGY.

CASE DISMISSED

Signed

The Doctor
rannie
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Mook,

Kindly tell Sal That The Boss aka The Manila Enforcer sends his regards. I enjoyed his DVD and I'm looking foreward to do business in Manila. I emailed him. I know he is pretty busy as of late , but please send him my message.

Thanks,

Rannie
"If you can't teach an old dog new tricks, trick the old dog to learn."

-Rannie Raymundo-
aka The Boss
aka The Manila Enforcer

www.rannieraymundo.com
www.tapm.proboards80.net
halcon
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Doc wrote,
Quote:
When I first came to the discussion forums I was arrogant, honest and direct but with the help of Glenn Bishop I calmed down; the streets make you hard.


I would like to add something to this.

I had the fortunate pleasure of visiting with Doc last week. He pulls no punches when you talk to him. he will tell you if something is not right or "won't get the money" why?... think about it. if he was nice and said it was great, when it wasn't, what kind of friend would he be? telling you a lie, could cost you your life. I, personally, appreciate your directness DOC.

what Doc says about the streets making you hard, is true. How do I know... been there done that. Although, I havn't gone through some of the things that Doc has, I've had my fair share of close calls.

this is what I personally think, for what it's worth or not.

CC is the real deal... regardless of what everyone else here may think.

Folks Please don't pm me, asking me how or what I know... I will not answer you.

Doc is also the real deal... this man has some mad skills!

As has already been written, these gentlemen play in games that are probably not what you would like to associate a cheat with. not everyone plays in a casino... different strokes for different folks. it doesn't mean that big money doesn't float on the streets or private games.

As long as these to continue to speak, I will continue to listen.

Halcon
sodman12
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I would like to say one thing and someone can correct me if I am wrong.
A card cheat may only need one close to perfect move move a night but I mean how many of us have the time to perfect one move. not very many of us I would say. I mean eventually it would be good but it would take awhile. What if also your one perfect move in one game is asome but in another game is useless since the people your playing with would see it. for me personaly I would rather have 3 or 4 ways that would work. it just my opinon but I feel that some people say that magicians are magicians becuase they do 10 moves that do the same thing when really there is nothing wrong with a cheat having many options at his disposial.
you can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all the time but never all of the people all the time.
mook
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Quote:
On 2006-03-12 20:57, Unknown419 wrote:
Why do I owe Sal an apology? I don’t owe anyone an apology, I made an assumption of which I was wrong

No need to respond to that one. You answsered your own question. (Hint: the answer is in the last 9 words. Start from "wrong" and count backwards. Then read forward.)
mook
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Quote:
On 2006-03-12 20:57, Unknown419 wrote:
“I APOLOGIZE.”

It Ain’t Over (Street Side is Back)



Hope this is the Christian DOC reading this... Regards to the alter ego.
mook
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Quote:
On 2006-03-12 20:57, Unknown419 wrote:
Sal is street,


Hmmm. Peculiar... I recall on another thread that you said Sal took the easy way out and went to work for the casinos. One might infer from that, that you meant Sal isn't street. Or maybe I'm just "reading between the lines..."

Now onto the false witness stuff:
mook
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Quote:
On 2006-03-12 20:57, Unknown419 wrote:
Whoever tampers in any way with the exact truth, in order to gain personal advantage or for any other purpose, is guilty of bearing “false witness.”


Ok. I think I get it. Though I never did take Reading Comprehension 101. Is that a remedial course?
mook
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Quote:
On 2006-03-12 20:57, Unknown419 wrote:
by speaking evil of another, whereby his character is blackened, his motives misrepresented

Aha! This is what I'm talking about.
rannie
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Mook,

You missed my post. Anyway congratulate Sal for this Dvd.

Thanks
"If you can't teach an old dog new tricks, trick the old dog to learn."

-Rannie Raymundo-
aka The Boss
aka The Manila Enforcer

www.rannieraymundo.com
www.tapm.proboards80.net
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