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J Wessmiller
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Andrei,
That is an amazing clip with the infinity passes. One of the best shifters I've seen.
be well,
JW
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bishthemagish
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Quote:
On 2006-03-10 13:29, card cheat wrote:
Many of the members here can do excellent things with a deck of cards, and can do much more with a deck of cards than I can. The problem is beautiful sleight-of-hand does not a cheater make. My point is, that no matter how clean my moves are, the whole Cafť could see them and still say that I am not the real deal.

CC

This is 100% true in the world of card magic and card table manipulation. Magicians do moves fancy and out there so the public can see them. They make the move visible. Card Cheat is saying a very true statement here.

Because card sharps will handle the deck like the people do at the table. They shuffle the way that the people at the table shuffle. They blend in. And often they will make themselves look like the person that is sitting at the table with the least amount of card playing experience.

When I played cards I let the players tell me the rules. I let the players tell me which hand was higher. That is that when playing cards I let them be the experts and I was just a guy that was passing time. And I was the guy that did not know much about card games.

So what I am trying to say that magicians are not a good judge as to what will fly and won't fly at the card table. Because they judge moves from a skilled smooth point of view. I have watched video of magicians and many of them are very skilled at the card table style moves. They can stack 4 of a kind with skill. But a card sharp would have no need to stack four of a kind - they would go after two of a kind or three of a kind at the most.

Also with Texas Holdem getting more popular to move in a game could be much easier because getting just two of a kind when you need it - by dealing thirds, stacking, or bottoms or seconds. Would be a very strong advantage.

From my point of view - there is nothing that NEEDS to be proven here.
Glenn Bishop Cardician

Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro

Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs
Andrei
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Jeff and CC, although this move is nice-looking and scraches the "invisible shift" itch a bit, I would not recommend it to anyone, except for demo work or whatever. At least, not until it's practiced way beyond my level. Doc is the only one I know of who can do it properly (makes sense) and it really is something to strive for.

CC - what do you mean by 'retention-style'? Also, if you ever decide to film anything at all, I'd be happy to look at it. I'm happy to look at anything, actually. I don't really care it comes from a Sunday-night cheater, a casino cheater or a kitchen table cheater, because, and I think everyone should consider this, we really can't tell, so why should we care? What we can do is look at the move or whatever and decide for ourselves how practical it either is, or isn't.

Andrei
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Quote:
On 2006-03-10 14:58, Andrei wrote:
CC - what do you mean by 'retention-style'?

Think "cut-card." In the games that I play in (currently all except for one) the players all table the deck for the cut, and place the cut-card in front of the deck. The top-half of the deck is removed and placed directly on to the cut-card and the cut is subsequently completed, having sealed the deck in the process.

There is a shift that I can do that retains the position of the cut-card on the bottom of the deck throughout the shift, and I wondered if this could be achieved with DOC's shift. The problem with most retention shifts is that they tend to be noisy. In the right environment, though, this can fly.

Quote:
On 2006-03-10 14:58, Andrei wrote:
I think everyone should consider this, we really can't tell, so why should we care? What we can do is look at the move or whatever and decide for ourselves how practical it either is, or isn't.

Bravo.

CC
Andrei
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I'll think about the cut-card. Currently, I have no variation for this.

Andrei
J0ma
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Just to mention, what the hell has this arguing to do with Sal's Poker DVD?? Please do this over PM:s or make an official CC versus Abracadizzle thread

Cheers,
J0ma
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card cheat
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I have a feeling that this thread was never intended to have anything to do with Sal's DVDizzle....

Sorry, J0ma. I guess if this sort of thing offends you, you should just check another thrizzle.

CC
J0ma
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Nono, actually this was just exiting Smile

Friendly,
J0ma
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Abracadizzle
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CC: Let's spare the rest of the gang for a while... I think people can create their own opinions from here. My opinion still stands but it may stand alone. I can live with that. But, it is a very, very small world.
tommy
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Why donít all you guys go and get yourself trained as poker dealers! Then deal in high stakes poker. Donít you know there are simple and safe moves to get the money if you put yourself in the dealers seat. Why are you messing around with these high risk moves for low stakes?
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
ASW
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So what color close up pad do you guys think is best? I like green, but I've always thought a mauve line would be a hit and would certainly draw more mentalists into close up magic.
Whenever I find myself gripping anything too tightly I just ask myself "How would Guy Hollingworth hold this?"

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Andrei
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CC - Okay, if you wanted to, for whatever reason, shift the deck when a cut card is used, look at the Forte tapes. I think those two moves, particularly the idea behind the second one, are much more practical than anything I can come up with.

Andrew W - Please don't spoil the fun!

Andrei
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Andrei,

You are speaking about the Leaf Hops, aren't you? These moves are contained in the segment of the program that is dedicated to cheating at Blackjack in particular, no? It has just been too long since I have watched those things... hmmmm.

I do very much appreciate your getting back to me with your input, and will let you know what comes out of this. Like I said, I am just not a deck hopper....

CC
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Quote:
On 2006-03-11 02:02, tommy wrote:
Why donít all you guys go and get yourself trained as poker dealers! Then deal in high stakes poker.

Well, I don't really feel like:
a)Working for a casino, or
b)Getting nailed by the fuzz for dealing in a private game.

I was approached not too long ago by a fella who said he was hosting a private game at his house and needed a dealer. At first I was interested, it sounded like it could eventually be quite fat for myself and any player that I had planted in the game.

It was when the guy started to talk about free food, free alcohol and waitress service that I lost interest completely. "Free?", I asked him. "Well, not exactly 'free'," he admitted. "There is a rake, but it's not much at all."

The stakes were so nice; a very, very healthy cash game (So much better for my kind than a tourney.) I just had a bad feeling about working for a guy who was running an illegal gambling operation out of his garage, of all places.

Last week, it was raided; shut up and then totally down. The cops (puppets) ripped off the cloth from the tables, trashed all cards, and confiscated all chips and miscellaneous materials. Oh yeah, guess what else they took. The MONEY. Does that fall under the classification of misc. materials? Basically, the cops vandalized his property....

What I found out from talking to a man who used to play in the very same game, is that included in the "Gambling Related Materials" confiscated from the house were some slot machines.

The host "failed" to mention the slots to me when he was telling me about the gig; you just can't trust anyone not to screw you these days.

Quote:
On 2006-03-11 02:02, tommy wrote:
Donít you know there are simple and safe moves to get the money if you put yourself in the dealers seat.

See above.
Quote:
On 2006-03-11 02:02, tommy wrote:
Why are you messing around with these high risk moves for low stakes?

Are you assuming that you know me or the stakes I play for?

CC
Unknown419
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Quote:
On 2006-03-09 10:23, Abracadizzle wrote:
Doc: I wasn't a part of the game that was being played. He makes a very nice living with moves and methods that some people would call a little bold. If I remember correctly, he can pull the lower cards when he needs to. I have never known him to be caught. The man runs a mean juice table also. I think this is the majority of his income.


I'm sorry to be a bit late but I'm glad that you answered me like this meaning that you didn't tell on him but most likely became friends with him. This is hustler status; not telling when you see something being done to a sucker.

Much respect to you.

Now let me go back and read the rest of this stuff; it looks good


Your Friend

Doc
Unknown419
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Hey I just finished reading this thread and I like it. This is what goes on at real Gambling Spots and even though arguments or disagreements happen by listening (reading) we can all learn from each one of them. This is exactly what was happening at my thread at one time it made everybody learn and I just learned something by listening (reading).

In my honest opinion Card Cheat from a short conversation that I had with him PMing me and with particulars that he has mentioned regarding various games and different devices, is the real deal and with the vast knowledge that Abracadizzle has (according to what I just read) is also the real deal. Abracadizzle seem to be more advanced (not to sound conceited at my level) not taking anything away from CC to say the least.

Clarifying Things

When I say my level, Iím not placing myself up there with Sal or Steve even though I can hang with the best. Casino stuff is not my forte so therefore a cheat in that particular area can run rings around me just like anybody else here; but Doc? There are things I just donít know besides the fact that thatís not my environment. I may learn what to look for if Iím around the area every day but for now I just donít know.

To all who may have me on some kind of mental pedestal donít place me there Iím just like you; we all have our specialties or gifts that God gave us thatís unique only with us, letís just thank Him for that. The knowledge that I have exceeds many because I had hands on training and this is what gives me experience in certain areas, thatís all, nothing more nothing less.

Comparing the Two

Card Cheat is a card cheat and definitely can get the money and most likely has but he's conversating with a member who seems to be on a Steve Forte, Dave Malekís level (don't quote me on this but this guy is very knowledgeable). In other words Card Cheat could be a Charlie (as in Sal's video) and Abracadizzle could be a Sal if you get what Iím saying. Both are real cheats but at different levels.

Question: So would you say that Charlie is better than Sal? No but both are equally talented in their own way. Please Note: I stated this just as an example and for clarifying purposes only but think, as you like.

Just A Thought

You know Abracadizzle might just be Sal critiquing what yaíll may be saying about his video and just happened to lose it (went out of his mind) when he thought someone was saying something about whatever? Do you remember when Andrew went off on my thread with his knowledgeÖthat was great. You know what? I did too when I was confronted on my Punch knowledge and guess what no one besides who I taught still haven't answered those questions.

Abracadizzle who ever you are your knowledge is greatly appreciated and itís an honor having you here.

Your New Friend and Fellow Student

Doc

P.S. Doc why do you sometimes call yourself a fellow student? Because as long as youíre a student YOUR TEACHABLE AND YOU HAVENíT CLOSED YOUR MIND TO LEARNING NEW THINGS besides the bible says that a fool keeps rambling on and on while a wise man listens.
card cheat
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Quote:
On 2006-03-11 13:22, Unknown419 wrote:
This is what goes on at real Gambling Spots and even though arguments or disagreements happen by listening (reading) we can all learn from each one of them.

DOC,
Unfortunately, there is quite a bit of squabbling here on this site. I don't like it anymore than any other member does and hope not to engage in it again in the near future. If the need ever arises to set the record straight, though....

Quote:
On 2006-03-11 13:22, Unknown419 wrote:
In my honest opinion Card Cheat from a short conversation that I had with him PMing me and with particulars that he has mentioned regarding various games and different devices, is the real deal and with the vast knowledge that Abracadizzle has (according to what I just read) is also the real deal.

Well, I am the real deal; anymore I live to do it. As far as Abracadizzle being the real deal, I guess he could "really" be a lot of things. One thing is for sure, though and I mean no offense by saying so. I think that he is a magician who likes to wax philiosphically and theoretically on card cheating. I have read in one or more of his posts (I am not sure how many) certain things about magic tricks (unless rollover aces is a cheating move or a trick that someone can get their dog "Aces" to perform.) In my opinion, a card cheat at my level cares little about magic.

Anyway, I could be wrong. It certainly wouldn't be the first time, but... I don't think I am wrong about this. Let me just mention, for the record, that "vast knowledge" and "ability" are VERY different things than getting it on and working a game. I, personally, would rather know one move, or have only one strategy and just spend all of my time getting it on, instead of trying to learn and perfect new methods. What can I say? I love to cheat at cards....

Quote:
On 2006-03-11 13:22, Unknown419 wrote:
Abracadizzle seem to be more advanced (not to sound conceited at my level) not taking anything away from CC to say the least.

Well, more advanced how?

Quote:
On 2006-03-11 13:22, Unknown419 wrote:
Card Cheat is a card cheat and definitely can get the money and most likely has but he's conversating with a member who seems to be on a Steve Forte, Dave Malekís level (don't quote me on this but this guy is very knowledgeable).

DOC,
I have been conversating and working with one of this status (and in my mind perhaps in ways greater status), but it has not been here and it was not one of these fellas.

Quote:
On 2006-03-11 13:22, Unknown419 wrote:
In other words Card Cheat could be a Charlie (as in Sal's video) and Abracadizzle could be a Sal if you get what Iím saying. Both are real cheats but at different levels.

Wel, is Sal a real cheat? Just because he has cheated (if he ever did, I don't know anything about him) does that make him eternally a cheat? I think, if I stopped cheating (screw that) that I would have to not call myself a cheat anymore, but relenquish the title to someone who was still putting the plays down. Again, I am not convinced that Mr. Dizzle is a chizzle; in my mizzle, he's a magizzle - no offizzle.

Anyhow, thanks for chiming in, DOC. I still have your number and might call you one of these days just to chit chat. Perhaps we could even get together and trade chops, who knows? I do miss it there. I would love to see this machine in action, and to show you a few gaffs that I have had made for me in the past. Perhaps it's time to start selling some of them?

CC
tommy
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Some of the biggest and most successful scams in history have been worked by dealers in casinoís. Why any cheat would not want to work in a big neon wrapped piggy bank I do not know. Some guys like me have criminal records and canít work there but I wish I could. I would love it!

As it is I do run an illegal game and I have been raided once in 25 years+. The guys at my place had the sense to simply not admit there was any rake being taken. The cops came with the Gaming Commission who advised the cops there was nothing they could do. Cops being what they are were not too pleased and nicked me for the trivial offence of displaying booze for sale, the charge was later withdrawn. For what it worth as I am no lawyer but I do not think the players or the dealers are actually committing any offence. It is the management who are charging the rake and committing the offence.
Any one who runs a high stake rake game from his garage with jingling slots machines deserves to get robbed never mind busted by the cops, in my opinion.

I have sighted more Sasquatch than high stakes poker games without a rake. So I am sorry for being arrogant but I did assume and do assume more so now that you are playing for low stakes.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
card cheat
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Try again, Tommy.
tommy
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You have found in the USA high stakes private poker games that take no rake. In these games, the players use all sorts of shuffles. You are invited to these games often after going to a casino comp just few times and blending with the local players a little. Cool!
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
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