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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Motivation for SUC (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

chicagoman
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What is your motivation to get people to write something on a business card, and THEN put it back in the business card case?

I had one (only one so far) find it odd that it needed to go back in there, and I was wondering if that happens to anyone else and what you've done to ensure that people don't ask again.

Thanks in advance.
CM
jimtron
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It needs to go inside the case to keep it away from your view. Otherwise, you could sneak a peek.
Tony Iacoviello
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The question you should ask yourself is the motivation for writing it down in the first place.

"Please think of a friend, write down the name on the back of the card, this will help you ingrain her in your mind as well as allow you to picture the name, and not just the person in your mind." "OK, 'WE' will put it here, just in case 'we' need to get at it for later reference."

This type of presentation angle covers both the reason for writing it, and for putting it in the case.

Don't say it is in the case so that you "cannot get a peek," don't even bring up the notion that you would want to see it. Nothing on anyone who mentions this, but it smells of a magic trick when you say things like that, and it brings attention to it.
Reminds me of "Here I have a regular deck of cards..."

Tony
ellisd
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You save the message so "you have proof later on"
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Piers
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... and, bring as little attention to the SUC as possible.

It's just a 'thing', no more.

Don't say, 'and here I have! a beuatifully crafted, leather, business card holder, ungaffed in any way. etc ... '

Piers. Smile
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Mesaboogie
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You'll be surprised how often you can spend theorising about things like this only to find just "doing it" represents no problem.

I recall years ago when I introduced ACIDUS into a routine for the first time and pondered on a reason to ask for the billet back after writing. Only when I actually started doing the routine did I find, to my surprise, that THEY, 99% of the time, give it back, anyway.

I don't use SUC anymore, but when I did, it was simply a case of removing a business card, they write on it, I put it back and place the SUC in their hands. No need to say why, they never question it.
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Scott Xavier
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How about: "I have to peek the information now, so please insert it in here...."
Hill
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Scott, I have read a lot of your posts, and you are obviously a skilled technician. What is your favoured means of datacollection?

For me the rank is as follows;

1 Busch peek performances ct
2 stealth peek
3 suc (using stealth assassin)

Anyone else care to list their preferences in this manner?
Steve Dela
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LOL, ***... scott that's the line I use!

In all seriousness... if you feel you need to justify it then as a performer your presense isn't comanding enough.

Also ask youself, why are you justifying the justification. Your doing it to make yourself feel better. Why?


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John C
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Quote:
On 2006-03-11 22:45, jimtron wrote:
It needs to go inside the case to keep it away from your view. Otherwise, you could sneak a peek.


Why not just leave it on the table face down or let the spec hold it?

I agree, what is the motivation? I have both the outlaw and john riggs' butterfly and the first impression pad (FIP). I use the FIP all the time. There IS most definitely a motivation to use it. I carry it in my top pocket with a little pencil.

Pull it out, rip off a piece of paper, place the paper on the pad hand the spec the pad with pencil. "Here, write down a the first word that comes to your mind to describe so and so." (maybe so and so is a friend with us or a celebrity or singer or whatever.) Or, just have them write down a number. Or ask them what they work with better, numbers or colors.

The spec then folds the paper and you place the pad back in your pocket with the pencil. The reason is built in!

The Outlaw on the other hand I haven't used yet. I want to use it cause I paid for it I hate to see it sitting around doing nothing. I did find a routine for it. It has to do with a routine from John Riggs' book Fat Free Mentalism (if you haven't read any of John's books I would recommend them highly!) called Business Card Business.

It's a routine using business cards and a little phsychometry. I found the wallet may be useful for that.

But I still say REALLY there is no motivation for placing the card back in the wallet when there are so many other things you could do with card - leave it on the table for example, leave it with the spec after they draw on it, have them fold it in half. Whatever. But a spiral pad impression device serves the useful purpose and provides the motivation without ANY question on the specs' mind.

Or, maybe place the card in the wallet get the peek then hesitate and say, "Wait a minute, here you hold the card, fold it up or ... put it in your pocket."

This way in the end they may forget you placed it in your wallet briefly. When they retell the story they may say, "I drew on the card, folded it up and put it in MY pocket. The guy/gal STILL knew what I wrote! It was eerie!"



My thoughts anyway.

John
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Mark Ross
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How about a slightly different approach? Ask the spectator to write on the back of THEIR business card, then place in the SUC. Do your thing and keep their card. Later, you have a marketing lead. Obviously, you must be working with someone who would have business cards on him/her. Could work very well in a corporate setting.

Mark Ross
Dr Spektor
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I also try to leave the SUC in plain sight as much as possible - but mostly because I use it primarily to load things into after I PW... as for putting the card back in - check out the SANCTUM threads which designed a card to explain this plus their forum has a bunch of great ideas....
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John C
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The SANCTUM card is ok but then you need the "pen" and I would like to use the business card case to hand out MY card - it's as good an opportunity as any to hand out your business card.

John
The ULTIMATE Routine Series: rebirth soon!
Waters
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Your motivation is:

YOU DON'T NEED THEM TO. THEY NEED TO because:

1). They need to right it down to commit to one thought.

2). So they won't make you look foolish.

If "we" act like the paper is unimportant, but rather FOCUS ON THEM and THEIR THOUGHTS. They will FEEL like you were looking at them to read their thoughts.
You, nor they, will be thinking about the paper.

Presentation is the key.

I also think it is of extreme importance to do routines or subtleties that do not need any external props, papers or anything (in addition to the ones that do). If you can do some things without the paper, the things that need the paper will still be seen as the same (although the method is different). Use a combination that supports the weakness of another.

For example:

1). You could start with something that is pre-written (as a test to determine their thought patterns) Example: Mental Yarn, Kioku (there you go Rick), etc.

Strength: High probability of success
Weakness: you're using something that is external.

2). Then... move to something that involves nothing but thoughts....
Psychological forces, eye placement like a lie detector routine. Or a think of a number routine that uses Non-Contact mind reading (can be found in In Psychophysiological Thought Reading).

Strength: No props, but powerful
Weakness: Not always successful, still not personal thoughts.

3). Use peek or CT to reveal PERSONAL INFORMATION. But don't give the information back directly first. Give them additional info (read: cold reading or probabilities) that increases the impact. To them, you read their mind and you know things you can't possibly know. It will not appear that you could have just read that information from the paper (There is an excellent essay on this in Ted Lesley' book "Paramiracles"). It will triple the impact of the revelation of the thought.

Strength: High impact, and personal info is always more powerful
Weakness: It has to be written down

The combination and progressive nature helps sell your abilities. They will "know" it isn't a mere "trick".

Sean
Al Straker
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Good thread! Being a wallet junkie I have spent a lot of time getting just the right routining and psychology for these puppies. I have found that the most important thing is to make the wallet fly by and lack importance. That is why I introduce the wallet under a completely different effect and method just to sneak it into the play zone under their radar.

As far as why they should write anything, I agree with the 'need proof later' motivation and the 'impress upon your thoughts' phrase is also a good one.

Here is a couple of fresh approaches to motivate the replacement of the card in the wallet.

Firstly I think the sanctum card is a valid approach if you set the psychology up well. Yes, it is pain to carry the pen but the effect is worth it for me (I also have another business card application that doesn't require carrying the pen - see below). Briefly show the back of the sanctum card and say you do not want to show the other side yet because wish to use it in an experiment. Circle an ESP symbol target with the pen. Replace the sanctum card in the 'useful' pocket but not showing. Place the wallet in the spectators hand and say that they are going to to intuitively guess what is on the card in your wallet. Take out your ESP symbols (one of each) and do Banacek's ESP opener.

Alternatively, the sanctum card is ideal to introduce an effect where the spectator intuitively guesses what is on the card (circle tri force etc) or use one of the other features of the card.

This approach not only serves to give a reason introduce the sanctum card and leave the card in the wallet unseen but also demonstrates that the wallet is innocent. By replacing the card in the wallet to 'hide' it from the spectator, the premise is now set and switching methods now puts you way ahead.

Next you get them to do a drawing (or whatever - I do an ESP symbol first to give contunuity and then suggest we try a much more difficult task - a free choice drawing) on the back of the sanctum card. I use the Carlyle turnover peek as I place the wallet back in their hand. Now reveal these in your most convincing manner.

A business card application which still has a good premise for replacing the card is to simply do Bob Cassidy's name and place routine. Someone mixes the two business cards behind their back and then you are going to to get them to replace one directly back into the wallet. The card you replace in the wallet is the one that is 'eliminated'. Your audience is now only interested in the card left in play. The psychology of this routine is perfect for motivating the replacement of the card in the wallet. Of course you end up revealing both the thoughts but by this time the 'eliminated' card has been completely forgotten about and it looks like pure thought reading.

The Cassidy routine is my favourite application of a business cards/peek wallet type effect. Another similar one with a different twist is Peter Nardi's Hollywood or Bust which is on the Stealth Assassin DVD. Again this effect varies the method slightly and throws them further off the scent especially if used in combination with the Cassidy routine.

One last thing to mention is that for any of the wallets I own that need to be reopened to get the peek, I have applied a peek method that does NOT REQUIRE REOPENING the wallet. This method is totally clean and I have posted it before in an Insight wallet forum. This approach to peeking is vitally important as the suspicion aroused with reopening a wallet after they have replaced their card kills a lot of the wow effect. One of favourite things to do is fool guys with their own wallets using this method. Anyone who has the Banacek series has access to the method, it is the one for his number duplication effect applied to a wallet.

My two favourite peek wallets are Outlaw and Stealth Assassin, I always carry one of them with me.

Anyone for wallet junkies anon?

Cheers,
Al
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John C
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Nice one Al!

I have a simple solution. I have only been into the "peek" things for a short while. I suppose if the wallet exists we must find a use for them. Smile

Today I went our church, our new priest was being installed (that means the Bishop came to announce that this new priest would be in charge of the church from now on.) Anyway, the priest is a frind of mine, I have done mentalism/magic for him on many occasions.

So, he asked me to do something for his reverence (that means the Bishop). I had the Outlaw with me and the First Impression Pad. I used the wallet.

I said to the Bishop, "I agree that you must have picked Father Andy because he has many qualities. But there must be ONE quality that really stands out and helped you to cement your decision."

He said, "Yea."

I said, "Could you just write that quality down here on my card?"

He said, "OK," and he did it.

I then said, "Well let me just keep that card for future reference ... you know, in case you should change your decision about Father Andy we can remind you about this day." I placed the card in my wallet and everyone laughed. Wallet goes in the pocket.

Ok, then I did some funny stuff and figured out the word.

Seemed to be a fair way of keeping the card. I liked it. I figure I can do the same thing in similiar situations and maybe ask for a critique of someone or a company. And keep the card to "blackmail" them.

In my situation I don't, or don't have the experience, to conduct a really drawn out routine using the wallet in the course of it. So far the wallet has been included in very short routines.

Using the First Impression Pad in a walk around situation has proven more reasonable and effective than the wallet. Maybe when I start using the wallet more I will see the benefits of it over the FIP or the Butterfly.

John
The ULTIMATE Routine Series: rebirth soon!
Scott Xavier
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I use different methods for each effect. I have a chymara as O couldn't track down the suc, and I love it. Some situations call for different methods.

I like this line: " As I am claiming to be a mind reader some people think I am going to cheat. So I will be as fair as possible. Please place the business card inside here. We'll even fo as far as to wrap this rubber band around it so that I can't get to it that wasily. Now we'll place it asid for now...."
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