The Magic Caf
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The workers » » Spectator Cuts The Aces (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4~5~6~7~8~9 [Next]
Ross W
View Profile
Inner circle
UK
1735 Posts

Profile of Ross W
Well, I bought the notes and there is some excellent stuff in there, though Spec Cuts The Aces is the one I'm most eager to try out!

The fourth phase, I confess, has me slightly worried. While it'll fly with most audiences, I sometimes perform for a VERY critical audience. AS a matter of interest, how does Marlo end his? PM if this is too expository.
Author.
Twitter: @rosswelford
www.rosswelford.com
JSBLOOM
View Profile
Inner circle
2021 Posts

Profile of JSBLOOM
Mikes presentation is strong. Going back to a prevoius post because it eliminates one of the most common theories (cards are somehow switched). Something like this can build. For example, here is a ranking (from "worst" to "best") of how I think cutting to the aces plays to the spectators based on key elements (assuming everything else is identical):

performer cuts and turns over aces
performer cuts and spectator turns over aces
spectator cuts and performer turns over aces
spectator cuts and turns over aces

The subtle force for phase four is brilliant. I have easy estimation aces on dvd, but can not remember who the british magi is, but he is a trip.
lunatik
View Profile
Inner circle
2901 Posts

Profile of lunatik
What are the top 5 "self working" cutting the aces to date? and where are they located. thanks!
"Don't let your Dreams become Fantasies"
closeupcardician
View Profile
Special user
Justin Teeman Moore, OK
602 Posts

Profile of closeupcardician
Malone's Presentation is my favorite as well! The handling of which is credited to Harry Riser. Not to be outdone by Daryl's wonderful routine "Cut to Kill" in the Collected Almanac.
"Magic as art cannot live without love. Love of some kind. There are novels without love, other arts without love. But there can be no magic without love." - Rodney Reyes
RicHeka
View Profile
Inner circle
3999 Posts

Profile of RicHeka
First let me say that I don't consider myself a card worker. I know the basic sleights, shuffles, forces, and cut's, etc..

I have been performing the same 5 phase card routine for many years...of which 'Spectator Cuts the Aces' is the second phase. [the last 3 phase utilize those aces.]

The version I use I saw on an old Frank Garcia video. [Spectator cut's, I turn them over] It is very clean looking[Regular shuffled deck, no gaffs or gimmicks...in fact I often use a borrowed deck], and I get great reactions.

IMHO, I think building up the impossibility of it [presentation] is more important than the method used. Of course I am speaking of performing for regular folks,and not other performers.

This 5 phase routine gives the impression that I am an expert with cards. [not]However, I have been performing it for so long, I can do it very smoothly and with great confidence.

My only goal is that they are entertained and amazed. The most simple and direct method to get 'there' is paramount to me.

I never realized there were so many methods. I am absolutely certain there are finer methods than the one I use, but I would never change...because my goal has been met.

By the way, Spectator Cutting the Aces is a great way to put the spectator in the spotlight. I usually tell them "I wouldn't want to play cards with them". Smile

Rich
marc_carrion
View Profile
Special user
640 Posts

Profile of marc_carrion
Quote:
The fourth phase, I confess, has me slightly worried. While it'll fly with most audiences, I sometimes perform for a VERY critical audience.


I think the fourth phase is great. I used that move for it's original purpose and never had a problem. In this case it's even better because you are coming from three different cuts, so there is a reason for both of them to cut the deck. I think it's a great idea and I would not worry about it. Ross, have you tried it yet?

Marc
Hansen
View Profile
Special user
Down Under
653 Posts

Profile of Hansen
Very, very interesting thread!
I'm keen to add a Spectator Cuts the Aces effect to my routine, with the condition that it is pretty much impromptu and from a shuffled deck in use.
From what I've read Michael Paul's and Andrew Wimhurst's sound very much to my liking.
I know it's probably impossible to say which one is better, but which one is better? Okay, I know it's not as simple as that, but in comparison which effect is that little bit cleaner, stronger etc.
Cheers,
Jason
JSBLOOM
View Profile
Inner circle
2021 Posts

Profile of JSBLOOM
"My only goal is that they are entertained and amazed.The most simple and direct method to get 'there' is paramount to me." -PaleoMagi

I could not have said it better.
I will have to watch the 3rd phase again.
JSBLOOM
View Profile
Inner circle
2021 Posts

Profile of JSBLOOM
Mike,
How can we order the notes?
The patter for the 3rd phase is funny and if it is 100%, WOW!
Mr.Tweed
View Profile
New user
45 Posts

Profile of Mr.Tweed
Quote:
On 2007-04-18 17:53, Michael Paul wrote:
Thanks guys. It's Marlo's easy estimation aces, with some touches. I've changed up the handling to make it a sca effect, with 100% hits on the third and forth phase. The DVD also has a way of getting into the effect from Aronson stack.


See also Korttihai_82's review of the DVD:

Quote:
If I would have to take sides on this quite useless debate I would take MagicSantas side. I just finished Impact and I have to agree with Santa on most parts.

The routines them selves are so minor variations of allready 15 times published works that I doubt that any at least decently educated magician finds anything new here besides initial burn idea, that itself isn't that orginal.

Spectator cuts to the aces with Ed Marlos estimation aces as method has been done by my knowledge, published by Andrew Wimhurst. The real difference here is to use half deck for spectator to cut instead of full. Nice routine, but allready done.

Ace cutting with s..p cuts is done for ages. 1 ace appearing with the tabled ones was nice, but I have seen very similar things done and published by many other people as well.

Card to shoe is on Expert card tegnique, the fold as well, if I am not totally mistaken and also on few other places. Lisa Menna used to do this a lot in the mid 90´s.

Coins across is pretty much David Roths coins across with very minor variations.

Totally Triumphant is pretty much what everyone does with new deck order if they know any decent false shuffle. The idea of using new deck order as kicker to triumph was published at least by Karl Hein in his heinstein shuffle description in Genii, Henry Evans and it backs much much further than that I bet. Actually I myself don't like to show that triumph keeps the stack intact, but I like to use it as an opener to any stacked deck routine I am about to do.

Realty Displacement is bad variation of something that was published by Michael Close in the workers serie, however, Closes version could be done with any card and without no d......s

The production values were much better than average but again, I was distracted by the martial arts background and kung fu outfit.

The main thing however that I would like to ask is that to whom is this dvd geared to? Cos people with at least decent knowledge wont find absolutely anything from here. They have seen and are pretty surely doing their own versions of the routines from this tape allready and I doubt they will switch to anything presented here. And if this was geared to amateurs then this would propably be a treasure chest for em, BUT many basic moves aren't teached if they were the target audience.

NOW THE RANT PART THAT DOESN´T HAVE MUCH TO DO WITH THIS SET BUT IN MAGIC IN GENERAL

The problem in magic world tends to be that person has few nice variations and ideas so he gets a digital camera, friend to use it and movie maker to edit. Makes a dvd of his ideas and puts it out for 40$ wishing to get some easy money. Sadly its the consumers that have to live thru all the hype and in the end buy the product to be just disapointed... Especially for the pros or people with large knowledge, todays situation starts to be quite horrible. Way over 90% of magic dvd´s and lecture notes coming to market today are totally rubish. And it doesn't help at all if someone with more experience in magic, like I assume MagicSanta to be in this case, tells his honest opinion about the product and pretty much gets flamed for being honest. Also it doesn't help at all to get your budies to start the hype of your products 4 months before they are published and give glowing reviews on em after they are published if they cant be neutral with em. *** I miss Michael Closes reviews from magic magazine... Another 40$ would have been saved if I would have read his review before buying this tape.

As Joshua Jay put it on magic magazine some years back: "If you have good routine or variation that you really feel deserves to be published, send it to magic magazine of Genii or at least show it to many knowledgeable people. Do this instead of putting 10 other tricks or sleights with it, that are pretty much nothing new, basically a filler material, and make dvd out of em"

J-M
Too lazy to work, too nervous to steal.
Paul H
View Profile
Inner circle
UK South Coast
1134 Posts

Profile of Paul H
Hi Hanson,

Out of the Andrew Wimhurst and Micahel Paul Spec Aces, you asked which one is better. That is difficult to answer because both effects come with a collection of other routines. I do not have Mr Paul's Impact DVD and cannot comment on the range of material on offer. However, I do have Andrew's Down Under Deals manuscript which is fantastic and also his video 'The Card Artistry of Andrew Wimhurst which is also superb. Both give clear explanations of his Spectator Estimates the Aces based on Marlo's Ace Estimation Routine.

In comparing the two in isolation, I would have to say its really horses for courses. The strength of Andrews effect is that the spec cuts from a full deck which is shuffled by the magician after each cut. If you are a Stevens Cull/Control freak like myself, this is one of the few effects that uses the method to reveal the last ace. The ace cutting can, on occasion fail especially on the third ace. There is however the option of compensating for this with some amusing patter held in reserve. Michael Pauls variation introduces the idea of using only half the deck. To my mind this does introduce a weakness. It is not how you would cut to an ace at the card table which is the scenario suggested in the patter. On the other hand it does reduce the risk of the spec failing to hit the ace slug. Michael Pauls handling from what I can see also improves the odds of a successful cut on the difficult 'third' ace. He says this is 100% and if so, then there is a subtly at work here that I have not been able to fathom. Also, both spectators 'team up' to cut and locate the final ace which a nice touch in my view. Both routines have strengths and weaknesses. If you are a purist and comfortable with the increased risk, then Andrew's routine can become a stunning miracle. For a more secure presentation which retains many of the strong elements of the original, then Michael Pauls routine is a good choice. Hope this helps.

Regards,

Paul H
Ross W
View Profile
Inner circle
UK
1735 Posts

Profile of Ross W
OK - I have now been trying out Michael Paul's version for a week or two and I find it is waaaay less than 100 per cent. I think this is a routine to try out with people who already know their way around a deck of cards: your poker buddies, for example. The only time this has worked for me perfectly (out of maybe eight or ten performances) was with a card-player. (And yes, he was utterly stunned!)

I know, I know: Michael says it's a regular "worker" for him, with "real" people. I don't know: maybe Brits just can't handle cards as well as Americans, but I've had a handful of try-out performances in which the results have been just, well, embarrassing.

The fourth phase, which I wasn't keen on, flies past so I was wrong there! The preceeding phases, though, are just too uncertain for my preference.

So - still looking!
Author.
Twitter: @rosswelford
www.rosswelford.com
Paul H
View Profile
Inner circle
UK South Coast
1134 Posts

Profile of Paul H
For goodness sake Ross, 'Poker Players Picnic'. You know it makes sense Smile And many thanks for the update on the effect.

Regards,

Paul H
bugjack
View Profile
Inner circle
New York, New York
1619 Posts

Profile of bugjack
Re Paul's routine, I don't have his DVD but from watching the video, isn't the third phase automatic?
JSBLOOM
View Profile
Inner circle
2021 Posts

Profile of JSBLOOM
Steve Bedwell is the magician. Although he does the cutting and revelations, his routine is very entertaining.
edh
View Profile
Inner circle
4698 Posts

Profile of edh
Mr. Ross Welford, thank you for your update. I was certainly concerned about the "100%" accuracy statement made by Mr. Paul. I suppose the first two hits would probably be about 95-99%. But what really had me concerned was that the 3rd cut could not possibly be 100%. The spectators block has now been severly limited as to how many cards he can cut. Nobody I know can cut the required number of cards.

The routine looks good though. But probably not a real world worker.

Thanks again for your honest review.
Magic is a vanishing art.
Hansen
View Profile
Special user
Down Under
653 Posts

Profile of Hansen
Thanks to Paul H for the excellent and detailed review.
I've decided to go with Andrew Wimhurst's version. It sounds spectacular and I actually like the increased risk involved - hey, if it was easy for any ol' spectator to dead cut an ace then it wouldn't be so miraculous, the fact that there's a chance they'll miss one or even two sits nicely with me.
Now, of course, the hunt begins for Andrew's "Down Under Deals" lecture notes. Anyone? Anyone? Please...
Cheers,
Jason
bugjack
View Profile
Inner circle
New York, New York
1619 Posts

Profile of bugjack
Edh, from my interpretation of the video, I think the third phase should hit every time... but maybe somebody who knows Michael's routine could confirm.
ASW
View Profile
Inner circle
1879 Posts

Profile of ASW
Interesting. Does Michael Paul provide any credits in his notes or DVD?
Whenever I find myself gripping anything too tightly I just ask myself "How would Guy Hollingworth hold this?"

A magician on the Genii Forum

"I would respect VIPs if they respect history."

Hideo Kato
Hideo Kato
View Profile
Inner circle
Tokyo
5649 Posts

Profile of Hideo Kato
Quote:
On 2007-05-21 01:34, bugjack wrote:
Edh, from my interpretation of the video, I think the third phase should hit every time... but maybe somebody who knows Michael's routine could confirm.

As cutting leaway is 4 cards, there must be considerable chance of failure.
Anyway saying "Cut about 15 cards" are questionable.

I would cut 4th Ace myself after spectator shuffle the deck.

Hideo Kato

P.S.
When Larry Jennings showed me this trick, he used Card Stabbing instead of spectator's cut.
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The workers » » Spectator Cuts The Aces (0 Likes)
 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4~5~6~7~8~9 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2022 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.05 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL