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Cain
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For the third revelation one could simply ask a spectator to choose a number between 10 and 20, and then count down; your target cards are already positioned at the three most likely choices. I do not care for the fourth revelation, but I see how it flies considering I've used the cut deeper force. One could, I suppose, always move the final ace to the bottom of the deck and then do a Hot Shot Cut (on the rationale that it's toughest one to get).
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El Mystico
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No no; I don't buy this.
I have problems myself cutting to the third ace. Most people have problems - which is why the common performance for the third ace is to count down to it.

But I'll agree the Cut Deeper idea for the fourth ace is neat when you are using two spectators.
edh
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Quote:
Edh, from my interpretation of the video, I think the third phase should hit every time... but maybe somebody who knows Michael's routine could confirm.


bugjack as Hideo-san above has stated. The third ace would be the most difficult ace to cut to. The spectator has to cut to within the required number cards. I don't know any spec. that can do that. In my opinion it would fail more often than not. The first two cuts and the last, fourth phase, would be the most reliable.
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Ben Train
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The third phase is the most difficult in Marlo's and mosts routines- this is why Mike Paul has structured his the way he has. It will work everytime- no exceptions.
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Hideo Kato
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Quote:
On 2007-05-20 05:48, ross welford wrote:
OK - I have now been trying out Michael Paul's version for a week or two and I find it is waaaay less than 100 per cent.

Welford-san bought the note and posted as above.

Quote:
On 2007-05-21 22:01, Nordatrax wrote:
The third phase is the most difficult in Marlo's and mosts routines- this is why Mike Paul has structured his the way he has. It will work everytime- no exceptions.

If one of these posts is truth, another must be not the truth.

But if "It will work everytime- no exceptions" is the truth, it might mean there is outs when cut was not made above or below remaining two Aces.

Hideo Kato
ASW
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Well the method for this has been comprehensively exposed. Well done, everyone.

Still no feedback on whether Paul provides a proper credit history?
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Ben Train
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On 2007-05-21 23:03, Andrew Wimhurst wrote:
Still no feedback on whether Paul provides a proper credit history?

Unless the notes have been updated, they do not provide proper crediting (I don't recall any mention of Marlo or anyone else for that matter). If I missed something, please, Mike, jump in!

Quote:
On 2007-05-21 22:40, Hideo Kato wrote:
If one of these posts is truth, another must be not the truth.

But if "It WILL work everytime- no exceptions" is the truth, it might mean there is outs when cut was not made above or below remaining two Aces.

Hideo Kato

There is a satisfying conclusion to both situations you have mentioned.

I should also like to change my response above- the third ace is one of the most difficult. Obviously, if you are going to have someone cut to the final ace (be it yourself or if you are crazy enough, another spec) it would be much more difficult.

Hope that helps.
Ben "Lots-of-time-on-his-hands" Train
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Hideo Kato
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On 2007-05-21 23:56, Nordatrax wrote:
Obviously, if you are going to have someone cut to the final ace (be it yourself or if you are crazy enough, another spec) it would be much more difficult.
Hope that helps.

Yes it helped me a lot to clarify the method. From this, I understand he is not using duplicates, crimp or short card. The method for third Ace seems same as the first and second Ace. Thus the basic principle is not different from Marlo's.

Hideo Kato
Ben Train
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My intention wasn't to reveal anything.

Mike's routine is his version of Estimation Aces. If you know the original the method should be apparent. If you don't, you'll be baffled. I think it's as simple as that.

I will mention that Mike has changed Marlo's routine, and will not rule out the use of crimps, short cards, or dupes.

Glad I could help.
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bugjack
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And I wasn't fishing for the method with my comments above... After watching the video I assumed a very different method for the third ace than apparently is the case.
Ben Train
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No worries brother.

If you like Mike's work, including this one, then check out his notes.

Bed time for me!
Night!
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ASW
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Quote:
On 2007-05-21 23:56, Nordatrax wrote:
Quote:
On 2007-05-21 23:03, Andrew Wimhurst wrote:
Still no feedback on whether Paul provides a proper credit history?


Unless the notes have been updated, they do not provide proper crediting (I don't recall any mention of Marlo or anyone else for that matter). If I missed something, please, Mike, jump in!


Quote:
On 2007-05-22 00:57, Nordatrax wrote:
No worries brother.

If you like Mike's work, including this one, then check out his notes.

Bed time for me!
Night!


Or indeed my notes, since this variation of the Marlo effect (i.e.,using a spectator) first appeared there in 1998, with credits.

Or don't bloody bother, since it's been tipped here now.
Whenever I find myself gripping anything too tightly I just ask myself "How would Guy Hollingworth hold this?"

A magician on the Genii Forum

"I would respect VIPs if they respect history."

Hideo Kato
TheAmbitiousCard
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I don't think Andrew Wimhurst-san is very happy right now.

Personally I thought the video clip that was posted showed a very strained routine and telling the spectators where to cut before the cuts doesn't seem to add to it.

Maybe becuase I'm not familiar with the method. I'm off to investigate.

Let's hope there is credit where credit is due.
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Ben Train
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I really like Mike Paul. I think he's a nice guy and has some interesting ideas.

Unfortunately, due to a lack of research and crediting, he dropped the ball on this one.

The routine is Ed Marlo's Estimation Aces.
The idea of having a spectator cut to the aces is a Phil Bevan idea, applied to the Estimation Aces plot, published by Andrew Wimhurst (hence his grumpy post above).
The final phase in Mike's routine should be credited to Balduchi.

I'm sure there is a source to credit for the third phase, and while I want to say James I know it isn't true. Unfortunately I am doing this off memory so forgive me.

I have both Andrew's notes and Mike's, and while both contain a similar plot, Andrews is clearly a step above in both method, thinking, and crediting.

Obviously my stance has changed since I posted earlier, after I discovered (and had it pointed out to me) new information.

Hope this helps!
Ben
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Hansen
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You're all missing the point here! The point is I need to find "Down Under Deals" by fellow Aussie and brilliant cardician, Mr Andrew Wimhurst, so someone has to sell me their copy at a friendly and charitable price...

If only I had Derren Brown's powers of hypnotism and suggestion...
Purple pumpkin higgly boots sell me your copy of Down Under Deals pippy longstocking for shizzle dizzle...

Now cut to an ace!

Cheers,
Jason

P.S. The powers that be over at L & L should sign Andrew up for an 8-disc DVD series. I think we need to start a petition, or something...

P.P.S. Sell me you copy of Down Under Deals........... you're getting sleepy...
Ben Train
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I'm not that sleepy yet Smile

QUICK NOTE-
The idea of having a spectator cut to the aces is a John Mendoza idea, shown to Phil Bevan, applied to the Estimation Aces plot, published by Andrew Wimhurst.

Whew. That was a mouthful.

I'm done now.

Ben
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ASW
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No, no, Phil misremembered that it was a John Mendoza idea when I asked him. He later went back and watched a tape of Mendoza in which he did the Marlo routine. Turns out Mendoza just did the original thing and Phil had varied it during his performances and assumed it was from the tape.

I think I had credited Mendoza in an early run of the notes, but later corrected it to note that it was Phil's idea.

Andrew
Whenever I find myself gripping anything too tightly I just ask myself "How would Guy Hollingworth hold this?"

A magician on the Genii Forum

"I would respect VIPs if they respect history."

Hideo Kato
Ben Train
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I knew that. I was just testing...

:)
If you're reading this you're my favourite magician.

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Illucifer
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For any of you who have a copy of 'Simply Harkey', there's a fantastic, oft-overlooked spectator-cuts-to the-aces in there titled 'Euroaces'.
It's all in the reflexes.
Michael Paul
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Wow, somehow I missed the progession of this thread since I last posted. For those looking for answers about the routine, I'm very sorry to have made you wait for so long...

First, the important question: Is it credited? YES, it is VERY clearly credited in both Simply Devastating, and in Impact (dvd). In Simply Devastating, it is credited in the "simon session" additional pdf that comes with the file. I'm very sorry Andrew that I didn't give you a mention there, I didn't know we where doing similar things. I did however consult with Simon Lovell and a couple of other guys to make sure that I wouldn't be strung up for putting out something that was previously released. My apologies (and great minds think alike apparently).

In Impact, it is VERY clearly credited in the teaching segment, and is credited again on the seperate credits menu, which covers not only credit for Marlo, but to Aronson for certain thinking that went into the routine. In fact, I've given not only the credits for the technical aspects of the effects there, but also to sources that inspired my thinking in terms of routining and spectator management as well... I put in a HUGE effort to be thourough to the point of overkill. I hope this shows an effort to be honest and forthright... I never steal anyone elses material. I love magic much too much for that. I noticed a post mentioning I didn't credit balducci for the last phase. I don't feel like one should have to credit a move that is so well known, as to obviously not be mine. It's like saying that I should have mentioned that I didn't invent the double lift... it's just assumed. If I'm incorrect on that matter, please accept my sincere apologies.

Next, the issue of 100% hits on the third card:

The set up in my routine is such that the spectator cuts the ace (on their own)90% of the time. Then, on page 14 of the notes, I go on to discribe why a cut to another card besides the ace is still not a miss.

On the DVD, which was produced over a year after the notes where written, I offer yet another variation of the third phase that allows for a 100% hit.

I'm ALWAYS ready and willing to help out with any details you might need explaining, and so, if you have the notes or the DVD, you can email me, and I'll walk you through anything you need help with.

In response to Mr Tweeds re-post of a terrible review of my Impact DVD, you can also see the following:

http://www.online-visions.com/reviews/0704impact.html
and
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......orum=159

Also, anyone who would like can easily find plenty of referrences to my material here on the Café by using the search feature. I was quite surprised/shocked when I saw the review of the DVD, and it varied so drastically from what everyone else thought of the material. But to each his own.

Michael Paul
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