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Review King Eternal Order 14446 Posts |
Here's why Dave Dee stinks: he send out letters insulting your inteligence.
He states his product and offer and then say things like “ I dedided to send this letter out before I came to my senses and changed my mind”. What a crOck. When you read that, you laugh. It's the worst marketting ever.
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been" ..........John Greenleaf Whittier |
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Donald Dunphy Inner circle Victoria, BC, Canada 7563 Posts |
BTW, the practice of charging for a subscription, even a free trial one, is also normal practice.
Here's an example: There is a cell phone company right now in Canada, that is running a promotion that they will give a free satellite radio and six months of free satellite radio service as a bonus with a couples cell phone plan activation. The customer gets the radio for free, the satellite radio activation fee waived, and the first six months of monthly service fees for the satellite radio is also waived. I think it's about $170 worth of value. However, to do it, the cell phone company rep activates the satellite radio account online with the customer's credit card (with their permission and knowledge). The customer is billed the activation fee and the first 3 months service fee by the satellite radio company, then it is reversed. Three months later they are billed the next 3 months service fee. Then that fee is reversed. In the end, they end up with all 6 months of satellite radio for free, and also don't pay the activation fee. They can cancel after six months of satellite radio, by letting the satellite radio company know (but they will probably be hooked by then, because they like the service). Otherwise, at the point of six months, they are automatically billed for another three months. These are major national companies. Canadians would recognize their names, and Americans will know the name of the satellite radio provider. Setting up a billing system for a free subscription is normal practice. The responsibility being on the customer to cancel is also normal practice. Dave Dee is not doing something radically different. BTW, on another note. If I had to work this hard to sell a $10 magic kit or a $250 birthday party magic show, it wouldn't be worth my bother. My kits and shows are for customers who are interested, and not the super-skeptical buyer. If I had a prospect or suspect call me up, and tell me up front they didn't like my show and weren't interested in paying more than $50 for a birthday show, I'd tell them that my services probably weren't right for them. I know there are some prospects and suspects I won't sell, and I pray to God that they don't harass my other customers asking them why they bought my show, and go ranting to other prospects and suspects that they shouldn't hire me, etc. Would you want people to act like this towards you? I know I wouldn't. So please don't do it to other people. My point is this. Dave Dee will sell to those interested. Just as I will only really put effort into selling those who are interested. Those who are super-skeptical, should just move on, because you just won't be convinced against your strong opinion. The saying is true: "Those convinced against their will, are of the same opinion still." If you have in mind that it will be a rip-off, but still buy it, you will have a self-fulfilling prophesy and be disappointed. Those who have in mind that you will find something of value, and then buy it, will most likely find value, because it will be a self-fulfilling prophesy for them, too. - Donald
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
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Slim King Eternal Order Orlando 18012 Posts |
Hey Donald
This is what The Dean said... Hey guys... it's true, we already “know” that there IS a shipping and handling fee, that is 100% standard! (Good ‘detective' work!) Look at ANY "FREE" product offer on TV and you will know that is true. – (*sigh...*) Untrue...It is NOT 100% STANDARD. If I can name one offer that doesn't require this, and I can name dozens ( and so can you), then this statement is FALSE. You aren't trying to say the same thing are you? That ship has already sunk! Lastly, this is an OPEN FORUM. Anyone should be able to ask questions without being blasted by those trying to profit from their similar schemes. It's pretty simple to just say "If you don't like it don't buy it" but I'm looking for information. I've never heard of David Dee before. I have absolutely no presupposed notions of him either good or bad. But when people go into a rage when someone askes a few questions the it makes one feel that "Something is Wrong Here!" Get my point?
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
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Donald Dunphy Inner circle Victoria, BC, Canada 7563 Posts |
OK, I'm done.
Although I think I provided evidence that the idea of a credit card use for a trial subscription is often done (or sometimes done), and also provided evidence that the idea of rewarding referrals is often done (or sometimes done). Note, I am not saying that all do this. It's not MY responsibility to convince you to buy any Dave Dee products. After all, I admitted earlier that I don't even own any. It is Dave's responsiblity to sell you. If he can't do that, obviously his product is not for you. - Donald
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
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Review King Eternal Order 14446 Posts |
Has anyone mentioned thst Dave Dee stinks?
He advertised on the Café and got the point that the "workers" here don't buy his crap.
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been" ..........John Greenleaf Whittier |
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keithmagic Veteran user 375 Posts |
Um does anyone even know who or what is being talked about anymore!? Now for an actual question!
People are asking to become informed and make a decision - so I will ask a question I don't know the answer to, and look forward to hearing it as to make an informed decision... Only knowing or hearing of Dave Dee's course pitches to magicians, what kind of performing career has he enjoyed? What kind of act/show does he do and where does he work? Keith
Author of "The Festival Entertainer" The Professional Entertainer's Guide to Booking and Working Outdoor Fairs, Festivals, and Events.
Available at http://www.howtobookfestivals.com |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Keith would it be out of line to suggest that the question is irrelivant?
Think of it. Selling and marketing is a different skill set than performing. IF he was not a good enough performer to do a show that has no bearing on him being able to sell a marketing system. Again I speak not of his system or abilities, just that the question is not really relevant. He may very well stink or be full of it or a genius. BUT weather he was a good performer would be meaningless.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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keithmagic Veteran user 375 Posts |
Danny -
I don't find it irrelivent or meaningless... If the gentleman has had a great performing career - achieving similar goals or accolades of which I aspire to, then I would be very interested in what he has to say. It seems Mr. Dee is selling a system to book magic shows. You said "IF he was not a good enough performer to do a show that has no bearing on him being able to sell a marketing system." Well Danny, why do I care how well he can sell marketing systems? Like I stated before, I am interested in his success in magic and wish to know his to determine if it is something that would be worth my or someone elses while. If he has a good act, can sell it well, works great places and venues that interest me, I'd be interested in what he has to say. I think it's a good idea to learn from those who have done similar things that we wish to acomplish. They have been there, know what it is like, etc... Hence my question: What kind of performing career has he enjoyed? What kind of act/show does he do and where does he work? Keith
Author of "The Festival Entertainer" The Professional Entertainer's Guide to Booking and Working Outdoor Fairs, Festivals, and Events.
Available at http://www.howtobookfestivals.com |
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NJJ Inner circle 6437 Posts |
Keith - From what I have seen on videos Mr Dee is a rather average performer. Not terrible, but not as good as many of the guys on this Café.
Danny - One could argue that the worse a performer Mr Dee is, the better his marketing system is! After all, its easier to sell a good act then a bad one! Dave Dee's marketing system revolves around sending out multiple, over the top, attention seeking letters to as many people as possible. The theory is that of the 1000 you send out. 900 will ignore you, 80 will hate, 17 with laugh at you and the last three will book you. It reminds me of a guy I went to school with. He was an unattrative, obnoxious jerk but he always seemed to have a girlfriend! How? If there is a one in a million chance of a girl saying yes....you just have to ask out a million girls! Posted: Mar 26, 2006 6:51am Sorry - that was a little mean. My analogy was not the Dee is an unattrative, obnoxious jerk. (he's quite handsome!) but that anyone can have success if they ask enough people, enough times, someone will say yes. PS - I find it very funny that Mr Dee's website begins " Dear Friend, I'm writing you this for a personal reason. I've rarely written notes like this in the past, but I feel it's essential to bring this to your attention." when his systems are jam packed with similar such letters! |
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Review King Eternal Order 14446 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-03-26 06:29, Nicholas J. Johnson wrote: This is what cold calling is based on and....it does work. If you can do it and handle the rejection, you'll be successful at it.
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been" ..........John Greenleaf Whittier |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Ok now you guys just hit my point.
what does his act being good or bad matter to the marketing course. Nick is absolutly right. A bad act sold well is a testimony of great salesmanship. But the opposite is true also. IF he was a temendously talented magician, then selling his act would be easy as can be. So the system may not be worth the money.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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NJJ Inner circle 6437 Posts |
Magic Chris - I can handle the rejection of my services ("no thanks") but not of me personally ("f*** off and stop calling me!")
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Again Nick is right to point out the difference in someone buying the act as a validation of you as a person somehow.
Miller never takes it personally if I don't drink their beer. I never take it personally if someone does not come to see my show.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Starrpower Inner circle 4070 Posts |
But does anyone really know if Dee has been successful as a performer, or is he only successful convincing other magicians to buy his marketing program?
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Michael Messing Inner circle Knoxville, TN 1817 Posts |
This has been answered before. Dave was pretty successful in the kids' market. He did schools, pre-schools and birthday parties. This has been verified by Ken Scott who is in the same market.
See this thread: http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/searc......=3921273 I also have a friend who used the same agent for corporate mentalism shows and the agent told my friend he used Dave a lot "before he got too expensive." |
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TomBoleware Inner circle Hattiesburg, Ms 3163 Posts |
Two thoughts:
It doesn’t matter if it’s Donald Trump or John Doe giving out the advice. If it works, it works. It doesn’t matter if your selling airplanes, insurance, popcorn, hot dogs, or magic shows, applying the standard success principles will make you a success at either. Bonus thought: The most successful people in the world had no Proof or Guarantee to begin with. Extra Bonus thought: One excuse is as good as another, because they’re all just excuses. Tom
The Daycare Magician Book
https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/ My Blog - https://boleware.blogspot.com/ |
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TheDean Inner circle Reno, Nevada 2164 Posts |
Tom,
You ROCK! Sage and wise thoughts brother… thank-you! On the “Have Your Seen Him Perform?” question: I have seen Dave perform LIVE as well as several tape of his real live performances (Not and just an "edited" demo either.) All the presentations I've personally seen live were quite good, even great. Clean, well presented, performing and business professional of the highest caliber! The videos I have see are, well some are really good shows and some are just 'good' shows. I’ve not see the so-called stinker that others say they have seen, or maybe I have, and we just “agree to disagree” about the quality of his show? I have been booking acts and attractions (Casinos, Fairs, Corporate, Cruises …etc) for too many years to count and believe me, I have see quite a bit and Dave is not bad at all! In fact, I would easily book him to represent my company if the opportunity arose either as a kid show guy ("Mr. Dave", his kid show persona, doesn’t do much any more, accept for his kids friends and family to the best of my knowledge. Andy WHY should he? It’s not his passion any more.) as well as his corporate speaking and corporate comedy mentalist shows each. They are as professional and entertaining as just about any I have seen. VERY professional! Too, to be clear, his proven, effective marketing "GOT" him the jobs, but the bottom line here is, his quality SHOW, performance and professionalism kept them booking back again time after time. (regardless of what “WE” think of his show.) What more could we ask of us as a performing professional? Hey, some "magician's" here may not like his show from what they have seen on some birthday party tape floating around, (Likely with-out permission or compensation! Hmmm funny that too eh’?) and ‘each’ are welcome NOT to hire him for your corporate events or kids events (Even though he still does perform lots of repeat corporate clients for good fees!) but unless WE are his targeted audience and buyers, who DO, in fact seam to like, book and PAY him time and again, who are we to say one way or the other? Guess he doesn’t “suck” as some suggest and say so bad that normal BUYERS (the people that hire us) would readily pay him more for one show than “most” (not all, just most) make in weeks or months. Still, what any of this has anything to do with us and his 3 Month Trial Offer is got me stumped!? Happy hunting. I am at your service and In HIS Service, Deano in Reno PS Once again, I’m JUST answering the question with zero “emotional attachment”. No fights, no challenges, none of that. Please play nice.
Dean Hankey, *M.D. - The Dean of Success Solutions!
Serving & Supporting YOU and Your Success! "Book More Shows... Make More Money... SERVE MORE PEOPLE! - Not Necessarily In That Order…" (*Marketing Doctor) |
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Starrpower Inner circle 4070 Posts |
Come on, Dean! All those exclamation points and "You ROCK"!, and you claim your have zero emotional attachement? I see a LOT of emotion there. As for what it has to do with his offer, I think it's all part of the sale, isn't it? I mean, someone with a successful track record would be more credible than someone without one.
Tom, I don't think that's true. What you say makes a good "sound bite" but cries out that you have never been a professional salesperson. Someone who's good at selling one product could absolutely stink at selling something else. Selling 747's is quite different from selling radio advertising. There's a different level of commitment on the part of the buyer, for the jets a single sale is far more important to the business, a saleperson's personality, the way he/she responds to situations and conditions, as well as how well he/she fits in to a certain socio-economic group all make a difference. It's folly to say that it's all the same game ... it's not! Michael, thanks for answering the question. |
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TheDean Inner circle Reno, Nevada 2164 Posts |
Mark, (StarPower)
Come on brother... by now you MUST know that is how I write. Are you just LOOKING for problems and ways to make thing more difficult than they really ARE or need to be?? - PLEASE STOP DOING THAT! (as stated last time!) Yes, we already know some don’t like "how I write". Ok, you are welcome to your opinion... So what??? READ for 'content', not for context (or don't read at-all... either way, no biggie) if you don't "like" the WAY I write here. (It's that 'feeling' thing vs. the fact thing again...) That too would solve almost every mis-understanding we have had to date as well. As stated... I'm NOT a complicated guy. Besides, just assuming we are all “really good people who sometimes disagree” would be much better for everyone… sounds like a win-win to me. MORE 'communication', less bickering, and I am ALL for that. – Woo Hoo! PLEASE no need to make it anything more difficult than it is again bud. THAT is the entire 'problem' with this an others 'situations' here on the board. All I was doing was just answering the question... (as stated…) make something out of it or not won't change that simple fact. BESIDES, suggesting otherwise presumes “YOU know more of what I'm thinking and intending in my posts than I do”... that my friend, is simply not possible! …and as we have already discovered cause waaaay too may problems that do not, in fact exist until someone takes 'creative license' with other's posts and “intentions” behind the share. I simply assume you MEAN what YOU SAY and take it at that... you will see that is absolutely TRUE from all my past posts. THAT, in part if WHY I take so much effort to post and specifically ANSWER each post as I have around here. (Which, by the way, makes my posts look longer than they actually are since I don’t want the share to be taken our-of-context when I answer that way around here... that is why all the: "STAR:" your question and then "DEAN:" my reply... just trying to be point by point clear. Again, no hidden meaning as I have been accused of here. PLEASE stay on track with the fact and what is actually offered. Really... it's not as big a deal as some to think it is. Can we please just discuss the subject with-out all the implied and “sub-text”, or the “putting thoughts and words into my posts” when they simply do not exist that way. Makes life and posting waaaay tooooo difficult, cuz I have no idea how I may be “re-interpreted” with out my intention or permission and THEN being held accountable to the way “OTHERS” say I ‘mean’. OK? Hope that helps to communicate the facts better. – Nothing more, nothing less. Just apply the KISS (Keep It Super Simple) method to my posts and we will not get into trouble we should never have gotten into. I am, as always, at your service and In HIS Service, Deano <><
Dean Hankey, *M.D. - The Dean of Success Solutions!
Serving & Supporting YOU and Your Success! "Book More Shows... Make More Money... SERVE MORE PEOPLE! - Not Necessarily In That Order…" (*Marketing Doctor) |
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TomBoleware Inner circle Hattiesburg, Ms 3163 Posts |
But Star, I have been a professional salesperson. Adjustments do have to be made going from one product to the other, but that’s never a problem with the true professional.
It’s not that uncommon to see a president of one company take over another completely different company. Do you think they start at the bottom again, no they use the old skills for a different product. I personally don’t care if anyone buys Dave’s stuff or not, I never have myself. But I do know that some in the magic field can benefit from it. I’ve heard to much good about it not to. I just can’t see the fuss when it’s been said over and over that he will refund your money if your not satisfied. Now he’s saying try it for three months before you pay me anything, and still there’s questions about that. Sounds to me like a lot of folks are just looking for excuses. It’s simple. Try it or not try it. Like Dean, I think each should decide for themselves. Asking around on here for one hundred percent proof it will work is crazy. Tom
The Daycare Magician Book
https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/ My Blog - https://boleware.blogspot.com/ |
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