petitiononline.com

Please go to the above and sign the petition. It is curently at 69 signatures.
Please Help Out!

I'm quite new to magic, so maybe my opinion on a matter like this will change as I become more entrenched in this craft, but there does seem to be something so wrong with trying to stop the free flowing of information. Wiki is very different than FOX. It is a place people go to gain knowledge, not to be entertained (although gaining knowledge can be entertaining).

There have been many threads on this before, and especially about wikipedia. These usually end in the agreement that it is better to leave these sites alone, and let them continue to go unnoticed by the majority of the general public. Beside, people who look up magic tricks on these sites are generally not your target audience anyway. However, this being said, ifyou wish to participate actively in these movements, then I suggest you check our Bill Palmers website, http://www.billpalmer.com/exposure.htm .

Daniel

Wat the hell is all this hosh posh? stop exposure!! wat are you talking about? if you don't like it, don't listen. some people need help and there are no rules against it.

I certainly don't think that wanting to stop exposure is hosh-posh. Exposing new effects and hurting their creator's income takes away an incentive for others to create new effects in the future.

Crdshark86- That is an extremely simplistic and naive point of view. Just ignore exposure? Not entirely unlike ignoring a mugging or bank robbery. True, not as severe, but far more insidious. You have decided that there are to opinions which can co-exist peacfully on this subject, but you are quite incorrect. One of the opinions believe that active violations of peoples rights are involved. Not the kind of thing you stick a "bygones be bygones" on.

The only way to stop this is if the creators of these effects can find a way to sue the people who are exposing their effects on the internet. Other than that we can sign petitions until we are blue in the face and nothing is gonna change.
Do you think the people who post on these sites are going to say Oh sorry OK we will stop doing it.
Sorry for being Cynical but the truth is that they do not give a rat's a##.

Thanks for the link!

Just yesterday I performed at a high-tech silicon valley company's corporate offiste. During my show I did Whit Haydn's linking-ring routine (it's a GREAT routine). later in the day some engineers were asking me how the effect is achieved. I was tight-lipped, and cheerfully unco-operative. Then one of them said "as soon as I get home I'll just look this up on Wikipedia.

So today I looked it up, and sure 'nuff, there it is, all laid out in detail, fully expossed. And headed with a title that will draw anybody's eye, jsut in case somebody did not want to read that far down:
"Spoiler warning: The following section reveals a magical secret. Please skip this section if you don't want to know the secret."

This saddened me. That guy will look it up (probably already has by now), tell his friends how it's done, and never again will any of them, in their entire lives, ever be able to have that sense of wonder and mystery when seeing a linkg ring performance, or ninja rings, or linking safety pins, etc.

Ah well. Can anybody recommend a good brand of locking ring?

-Kim

No locking key needed. Years ago, a week after the first Masked Magician program aired I performed at an office holiday party. Out of curiosity I asked "How many people here saw the recent Magic Exposure show?" Only the kids raised their hands. After chiding the adults about letting their kids watch TV unsupervised I continued with my presentation. Whewn I pulled out the linking rings one of the kids eyes got really big and he ran over to his mother to undoubtedly tell her that this was one of the tricks he saw exposed on the show. I of course picked him as one of my volunters, linked two rings together and handed them to him. He of course was completely fooled as ths Masked Magician had only revealed the secret to ther key ring and nothing else. Consequently I fooled him worse than I would have had he not seen the program.
We will never stop exposure with petitions or protests. In fact these types of responses usually make the situation worse by brining undue attention to them. Exposure has been happening since Scott wrote The Discoverie of Witchraft back in 1584. Magic has survived and will continue to do so if we learn not to lose our heads about it and stop thinking that magic is all about the secret.

Crdshark86 did I misunderstand your post? Are you saying that it is ok to have exposure because some people need help? Did I understand you right with your post?

Steven

What do you think the potition will do?
Bob

This is an issue I'm still split on, however, I think Bob asks an important question. I doubt a petition is likely to do any good. In fact, it may only serve to draw even more attention to the exposures. It worked for me; now, I know method behind the Sooperman Levitation and the Chinese Linking Rings.


Posted: Jun 4, 2006 9:44am
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I believe most laypeople don't care about exposures, and those that are curious enough to tune in, forget easily. Further, even the most detailed explaination can be overcome with a good performance. As for doing the linking rings for people who may know the secret, I ran into this exact situation about a month ago.

I did my ring routine for a friend, who is an engineer. I should mention that he is a bit of a know-it-all and believes that everything in the universe can be explained by science. I told him several days in advance that I would be doing a version of the venerable Chinese Linking Rings; I knew he would search for it and find an explaination. At the start of my routine, I told him that I don't do the modern version, but, rather, the original version. I explained that the rings I use are quite expensive and rare, being manufactured by only a handful of eastern artisans. While explaining this, I was doing my most convincing count (not the Drop Count), which, oddly, he didn't seem to even notice. He just seemed a little doubtful, anxiously awaiting his opportunity to spot the key. After the my first crash link, I saw, for the first time since I've know the fellow, his confidence vanish. After working with two rings for awhile, I move on to four "clean" rings, which I count off as singles. By the time I handed him these four rings, two linked and two single, he was thoroughly perplexed and almost angry. I told him to relax, that it was a just a miracle of, now mostly forgotten, ancient metal-working technology involving precise control of crystal growth, carbon content, and magnetism, that I didn't fully understand the science behind it. When I linked and unlinked the ring in his hand, he was delighted, simply enjoying the mystery.

When I saw him the following day, he spewed out some techno-babble about the metallurgy of Samurai swords.

Thanks a lot for the link !
I'm not sure what this will solve but it's worth a shot so you've got my signature

-Matt

The problem with 'exposure' is that publicity for the exposure feeds on itself. Petitions don't work. Yelling doesn't work. Exposure in one form or another is always going to be out there. I have watched it happen over and over and over for 33+ years and nothing changes. The one thing that the exposers really hate is to be ignored by the magic community. Know why? Because, virtually no one outside of the magic community really cares for more than a micro second how what we do works! They really don't. And, when they find out they are mostly disappointed and within a short time they have forgotten what they learned. I LOVE magic and it takes an effort to remember what I learn about it! I have to practice, read, study, etc. I was ill for several years and hardly picked up a deck of cards and I still can't believe how much I forgot.

Non magicians who see or read some exposure are like people who have to look at the accident on the highway as they drive by. You get past and that is pretty much it. Within moments you are on to something else.

We think that the secrets of magic are important to the non magician, because they are important to us. Just ignore it and go on about the business of amazing folks.

Consider the following story that happened to me time and time and time again. The finale to my stand up or parlor act for years was the Linking Rings. The Linking Rings is one of the most sold tricks in magic. More non magicians problably think that they know HOW the Linking Rings works than any other trick I can think of except Cups and Balls. How many of you have heard the following after a show, "Man, that ring trick is killer...I had those when I was a kid and thought I knew how they worked, but I guess yours work different." Or, some variant. Haven't you? It's the same with cups and balls. I've sold thousands of set of plastic cups and balls. Do the Vernon routine sometime with a cheap set of cups and balls for someone who owns them and only knows the most basic routine. They just fall apart with awe. The magic is BETTER because they think they KNOW how it is done!!!

Knowing a method is not the same as knowing the secret! I fool folks all the time that know what a TT is. I don't care if they do or not. Use it correctly and fool the folks that think you hide it by waving your hands about like someone having a seisure. Best,

Do I think it's right? Heck no! It stinks. But, after you get done yelling at the air and other useless gestures, life goes on. Remember that folks have to look up the stuff in the first place and to do that they pretty much have to know about it. The less information we as magicians toss out online the less folks will know about this horrible thing going on. Part of the irony about this is how much attention gets turned on exposure by magicians getting ****ed about it and talking it up! DON'T HELP THE ENEMY!

In the end it will be just like Modern Magic by Hoffmann. The net affect will be that magic will just keep getting better and stronger. Magicians will keep getting shows, maybe because someone wants to actually see something done that they have only read about even though they know the 'secret'. "THEY" can't destroy us. But, we can. BEst,

Most people are familiar with at least one sport, and sometimes serveral. We know all the rules, we've played them with friends and even in our schools. Why then do we continue to watch the sports pro's when we know how it's done and have most likely done it ourselves? It's becouse it's entertaining when it's done by a professional!

Your time is better spent practicing to be a professional. That is something you really have the power to change!

Till we appear again,
Kipp Sherry

This IS an important topic. It's even more important now as the ubiquity of information makes available more and more of the secrets we cherish. The problem is there. The question is what do we do about it?

Look at Wikipedia. Let's say that a 1000 magicians signed something saying that they deplore the magic secrets on the Wikipedia site and they won't visit until they are gone. So what? It's an empty threat because the Wikipedia folks don't care if you visit or if you don't. They are dealing in such huge numbers of views it just does not matter. So again, what is the best way to deal with exposure?

As above I suggest that we just ignore it. Make no fuss, etc. Consider...if you were a layperson and you heard about a big bruhaha going on about magic secrets wouldn't that pique your interest? If you heard that 'magicians' were ****ed off that those secrets were there....wouldn't you be MORE INTERESTED IN FINDING OUT WHAT IT WAS ALL ABOUT? Sure you would!

The quieter we are the better for magic. If we set up a fuss then we play into the hands of those who want to get the exposure going. Let them do their own promotion, why should we help them out? Best,

From a forum like this, which is mostly frequented by magicians, I think it might actually be helpful to point folks toward some of the better "exposure" material. This excellent site not only gives up the secrets, but it also teaches some of the fine points and mixes in a little history as well!!!

I always wondered how they did the Ambitious Card.....

I love their approach to the memorized deck as well. Thank you Mallusionist!