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J Wessmiller
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Can anyone think of something to add to this list?


1. Collusion
Collusion is when two or more players transpire to trade information about their hand. In essence, this is the same as being dealt two hands and choosing the best one to play. The players signal their hands to one another and the weaker hand folds. This can be accomplished by simple hand gestures, or can be transmitted through some kind of electronic device.

Players may also collude in a method of betting called ďcross firingĒ in which two players continually raise each other regardless of what they have. This style of betting eventually forces all other players out of the pot, and one of the two cheaters will win.

A player may also collude with someone who is a spectator. If permitted, a spectator could position him/herself to where other players cards are visible and could relay that information to another player.

Protection Tips:
Require seating to be random, and do not allow cell phones or other electronic devices on the table. Have a designated place for spectators to sit- do not allow them too close to the table.


2. Marking
Marking a card allows a cheating player to decipher what cards his opponent has,
even while they are still face down. Marking may be accomplished by placing some kind of visual cue on the back of the card (dye, scratch marks, ash etc.) or by bending or nail nicking cards in certain positions to signify their value. Many companies produce marked cards, so even cards that are sealed should be inspected.

Protection Tips:
Dealer/game manager must perform deck checks frequently, and during play all cards must remain on the table. Decks should be changed frequently. Ash trays and anything else that is not essential to the game should not be allowed on the gaming table.


3. Shuffle tracking
Shuffle tracking is taking advantage of a dealer who does not follow proper shuffling procedure. For example, if an ace is collected from the last hand and placed on top, it may stay in that position if the dealer doesnít properly shuffle.

Protection Tips
Proper shuffling technique must be followed by every dealer. The sequence of wash, riffle, riffle, strip, riffle, cut must be completed before the dealing of every hand.


4. Chip Copping
Chip Copping is stealing chips from another player or shortchanging the pot.

Protection Tips:
No player may touch another playerís chips. Change is to be made by the dealer, and not other players. Bets must be made at arm length and the dealer must verify that the correct amount is in the pot before collecting the chips for the next round of play. Optimally, chips would be unique and counted before/after every game.


5. Mucking
Mucking is an advanced sleight of hand technique in which one or both of the cards dealt are switched out for cards that were previously taken from the deck. A player may be using a hold-out device to aid him in switching cards. Two players in collusion may also use this type of technique to exchange cards with one another.

Protection Tips:
Cards should be counted randomly to ensure all the cards are there and players must keep all the cards on the table.


6. Flashing/Glimpsing
Flashing is when a dealer displays a card or cards secretly to a player. If a dealer flashes the community cards to a player before the rest of the players see them, the player can make key decisions on how to play his hand to make or save the most amount of money. Even flashing the bottom card of the deck to a player will provide an advantage. The dealer may not necessarily be doing this on purpose, but either way an unfair advantage is given when a player is flashed cards.

Glimpsing is when a dealer secretly peeks a card in the deck. This is used when a player and dealer are working together and the dealer is attempting to give the best hand to his accomplice.

Protection Tips:
Proper shuffling and dealing techniques must be adhered to, and a plastic cut card must be used to prevent the flashing of the bottom card. To prevent glimpsing, the deck should be kept parallel to the table at all times, and not turned over for any reason.


7. False shuffling
False shuffling is when a dealer maintains the position of certain cards in the deck to benefit one or more players who are ďin the knowĒ. A false shuffle may be used to keep certain cards on top or on bottom of the deck when the cards appear to be shuffled fairly.

Protection Tips:
Proper shuffling techniques must be adhered to, with the cards being squared openly.

8. False dealing
False dealing is another cheating technique that requires a dealer and a player to be working together. False dealing is secretly dealing any other card else than the top card to a desired player or as the community cards. False dealing may be used in combination with marked cards or glimpsing to almost assure a win for any given player.

Protection Tips:
Managers should be aware of the tells of false dealing; the sound difference, necktieing, and grip of the cards. A plastic cut card (or joker) should be used to prevent bottom dealing.


9. Stacking
Stacking is when a dealer prearranges the cards to fall in a desired position. An example of stacking would be positioning two aces to fall to a certain player during the deal. Stacking can be done during the shuffle, or, cards can be collected in a certain order then false shuffled to retain their position.

Protection Tips:
The proper shuffle sequence must be completed without hesitation. Managers should be aware of the tells of stacking; picking up the cards out of order, slowing during the end of a shuffle, angling the deck higher than required for shuffling, and starring at the deck during the shuffle.


10. Deck Switching
Deck switching is one of the most dangerous cheating moves. The entire deck in play is switched out for a prearranged (or stacked) deck before the deal. All the cards are controlled so that everyone receives a good hand, with the cheat holding the best when all the money is in the pot.

To avoid detection and such a drastic conclusion, a marked deck may be brought into play during a deck switch as well.

Protection Tips:
Dealers must stay alert and be aware of the decks location at all times. Game Managers should be aware of the concept of cold decking and be on the lookout for it. When not in use, decks should not be accessible to the players.
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tommy
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Dumping chips:
Deliberately losing to a partner (perhaps someone you are backing financially or with whom you have traded a percentage stake).
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
J Wessmiller
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Good point tommy, I thought about that- but how could you detect if someone was dumping chips or was just a bad player?
be well,
JW
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tommy
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Angle Shooting
There is another form of improper play referred to as angle shooting. Angle shooters try to use the rules or procedures of poker to their own advantage. Angle shooters will also try to take advantage of another players lack of proper procedure. A classic example of an angle shooter is a player who is suppose to act behind you but verbally declares at showdown that he has a flush. You muck your hand and he then reveals his hand which is not a flush. You would have won the pot had you not mucked your cards.


They were just a couple from here:

http://www.homepokertourney.com/cheating.htm
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
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One scam, in comps where there is buy-ins, that goes on is between the card room managers and a player:
The player buys in and his buy in money goes into the card room managers pocket and not into the prize pool as it should. That money is returned to the player latter. It means the player is buying in for nothing. So he can play wild in the early stages, when buy-ins are going on, and if he gets lucky he can accrue a big stack and go onto win. if he wins the comp the manager and player split the prize. This was common in small comps not long back but I think it is rarer now.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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iamslow
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Hi tommy and Jeff... some good points...I would like to add Goose Necking-Is also another common one even though sometimes it is more human nature to do this than it is a plan to cheat...protect your cards!!
"Everyone is tough till they get punched in the face" Mike Tyson
tommy
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With goose necks this is what to do: Go to the comp with a corner of card, lets say a two of clubs. Slip it on the corner of one of your hole cards and let the goose think you have a two of clubs in the hole. Do you follow?
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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Hell yeah I follow!! I never thought about this, but that would be cool to be seen in a movie!! I wanna hear more!! keep em coming!
"Everyone is tough till they get punched in the face" Mike Tyson
tommy
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I donít know if this would work but what about this: Casinoís have small and big comps but they play with the same chips, I think. So what if you play in the small comp and sink some chips so then when you play in the big comp you add them to your stack.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Unknown419
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Quote:
On 2006-03-24 14:44, iamslow wrote:
Hi tommy and Jeff... some good points...I would like to add Goose Necking-Is also another common one even though sometimes it is more human nature to do this than it is a plan to cheat...protect your cards!!


I know that this is not related but I just remembered this story about goose necking.

One time while I was playing 7 card wild poker (all hearts wild) I dealt myself 5 Aces. The funny part of this story to me is that I dealt myself 5 Aces on 6th street and when it was time for me to deal myself the 7th card I dealt a regular card of which didn't look like it helped me so what I did is lift the card high enough off of the table while pretending to look at it then looking away letting my opponent see (he goose necked my card) and then checked it to him.

What did I do that for because boy did he raise that pot. After hesitating a bit I called saying "Broke Now, Broke Later won't Make Me a bit of difference" and pushed all of my money in the pot so he called and when I turned over them 5 Aces you should have seen his happy facial expression drop. He said but you didn't hit anything on your last card, I said I know but I did on my 6th.

Remembering Yesterday

Signed

Doc
Expertmagician
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I was ammused by your comments on marked cards....can I play with you Smile

You said that your protection tips were:

Protection Tips:

1) Dealer/game manager must perform deck checks frequently
2) during play all cards must remain on the table.
3) Decks should be changed frequently.
4) Ash trays and anything else that is not essential to the game should not be allowed on the gaming table.

Here are my thoughts:

1) You are assuming that the dealer/manager know how to detect all the different types of marked cards. While this may be possible in a casino...it is not likely anywhere else.

2) Making sure that all the cards are on the table means nothing. You can nail nick, punch, daub, etc. etc. while the cards are in full view.

3) Decks should be changed frequently. This is a harder nut to crack. If you change decks then that will most likely mean that you are not using pre-marked cards. In this case I would use Juice Dust which will work on paper as well as KEM cards. And Juice marks are VERY difficult to detect.

Funny thing is that some people like to use KEM/Copag cards because they last longer. This means that a pre-marked deck stays in play longer ... ironically people think that plastic is harder to mark Smile Ha!

4) Ash trays...sure some primative techniques may use an ash tray, cell phone ,etc...but, you can obtain daub from may other places undetected.

Last but not least...I am surprised that you did not say to perform the "Gamblers Riffle Test" which is good to detect most block out, scroll, leslie and Borris Wild decks, etc.... But, it will nt detect juice or Luminous Shade.

I hope these comments help.
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Unknown419
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You sound like an Expert to me.

Doc
tommy
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I run a high stakes private cash game and I might be an exception but my dealers change every half hour and bring the cards of with them and give them to me during their break. I can give them a different deck when they go back on but anyway I check the cards for marks and sort them into new deck order. It does not take me a minute to check them and I do not use eyesight alone. I use a cheap machine which I also use to check banknotes. That does not mean no marked cards will get passed me but I would not underestimate the management of private games. The reason I have to check is simply because it would be bad for business if marked cards were found in my game.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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Expertmagician
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Tommy,

Sounds like your machine uses a black light (UV). You should be aware that good luminous and juice marked cards have UV inhibitors added to prevent detection by using a UV light. So I suspect that you have a false sense of security.

Sorry.

Be aware that if people mark their own luminous and juice decks, they can even get passed people "in the know" because they probably designed their own marking patterns which are non-standard. Since juice and luminous is so hard to detect, once you vary the marking pattern you make detection that much more difficult.

Unknown419, Thanks for the complement...I know that you know your way around the underground Smile
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What are your guys thoughts on "burn cards"?

Personally from a glimpse/second deal standpoint they are really bad, since they provide multiple oppertunities to change the outcome of the game with minimal effort, and due to burn cards being so low key, a second deal on the burn is barely ever seen since everyone is only watching on the boards... and you can deal the burn anytime so you can pick the moment...

I understand burns help stop markings or to make it harder to stack, but from the glimpse/second deal standpoint it seems to greatly help things....

thoughts?
tommy
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Infrared Mark Detection, Dual frequency Infrared Detection, Micro Printing detection, IR Micro Printing detection, UV Mark Detection and it cost me £50.
I did not buy it to find marked cards: Some gentlemen took me with counterfeit some time back and before that I just looked at the cards by eye. It is just a coincidence that I find it useful to look at the cards as I got it to check the money really. Ironic actually because I myself when I was younger liked a bit of counterfeit. Which makes me fully aware of the point that knowing about something is no guarantee of safety. If the marked cards are good enough to get passed me then the players are not going to find them and thatís all am worried about as I donít play in my game. I say good luck to them.


As for peeking and dealing seconds thatís great if you think itís safe in game. I think it a bit of an extravagant move doing it on the first card before flop. That one mathematically is unlikely to help but if you happen to be four flushing or open ended after then flop then I think it is worth it. I was trying to explain this point someone the other day: If have a pair in hole the likelihood of peeking a burn that happens to match and give trips is about 25/1 against so your doing a lot of peeking for nothing. Before the flop you canít peek a card that makes a straight or a flush because you only have two card the hole and peeking one makes three but need five cards to flushes or straight. I think you need a pretty lose game to do any peeking in my judgment anyway. Flashing a card is a safer option than peeking, I think. I donít play in games where the players deal so I donít know but it seems to in such it will not help as much as might think: With say 8 player you only deal every 8 hands and when you peek a card it will not be of any help most the time even when you have four to a flush you only have nine outs so you peeking at cards are of no use most times when you looking for Club lets say you will peek the card and 3out 4 time some other suit. Like I said if it safe then why not. I happen to think it not so easy has people make sound. The move is not hard at all but I donít think it so easy to it without arousing a suspicion. Iím told it gets the money well sure it will but how many times do have before it gets the money? How many times can do it and get away with. I donít like this play I think.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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Quote:
On 2006-03-24 21:38, Expertmagician wrote:
I was ammused by your comments on marked cards....can I play with you Smile

You said that your protection tips were:

Protection Tips:

1) Dealer/game manager must perform deck checks frequently
2) during play all cards must remain on the table.
3) Decks should be changed frequently.
4) Ash trays and anything else that is not essential to the game should not be allowed on the gaming table.

Here are my thoughts:

1) You are assuming that the dealer/manager know how to detect all the different types of marked cards. While this may be possible in a casino...it is not likely anywhere else.

2) Making sure that all the cards are on the table means nothing. You can nail nick, punch, daub, etc. etc. while the cards are in full view.

3) Decks should be changed frequently. This is a harder nut to crack. If you change decks then that will most likely mean that you are not using pre-marked cards. In this case I would use Juice Dust which will work on paper as well as KEM cards. And Juice marks are VERY difficult to detect.

Funny thing is that some people like to use KEM/Copag cards because they last longer. This means that a pre-marked deck stays in play longer ... ironically people think that plastic is harder to mark Smile Ha!

4) Ash trays...sure some primative techniques may use an ash tray, cell phone ,etc...but, you can obtain daub from may other places undetected.

Last but not least...I am surprised that you did not say to perform the "Gamblers Riffle Test" which is good to detect most block out, scroll, leslie and Borris Wild decks, etc.... But, it will nt detect juice or Luminous Shade.

I hope these comments help.


Hi Expert, I noticed you mentioned juice dust?? Ive never heard of this, and I am assuming it comes in a dry form?? How is this different from liquid juice??? I was talking to a few people and was told that juice can be detected from the surveillance cameras just as well as in person.. Ive never seen it throuh a camera except on the GPS tapes... As far as luminous readers, it would be pretty difficult to use in a casino because a lot of places use the red see through discard holders and the clipboards that's used in the pits are clear seethrough red as well which makes it easy for a supervisor to pick it up and walk up to a table and pretend to do a float count but really look through the clipboard onto the backs of the cards in play...
"Everyone is tough till they get punched in the face" Mike Tyson
Daegs
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Ah but tommy you are only thinking of helping out your pair or hand, when you are missing that its even better to not give the oppnent his hand...

For instance if the first burn is a 2, then your better off flopping it because the first card out could have been an ace which might pair someone up. Or if you have 2pr/straight and that 4th/5th card could make someone's flush(or conversly make their straight when you have a high pr). Just by changing the burns you are given 3 different oppertunities to change the outcome of the hand in your favor... even if you come up dry over the course of a night it adds up especially when you consider its just a done in between deals and a second done, again, in between deals.(no one pays attention to the burn and you can do it whenever you want...)

just my opinion though, I've never liked the burns, so its more a personal vendetta.....

btw though, which move are you saying you don't think would fly, a second or a peek??? I've seen some pretty bold stuff go on at the table... peek/seconds the least of it.
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Marked cards.

This applies to home games.
Make sure the dealer follows strict protocols in dealing the board and burn cards.
Certain dealers are novices and like to deal the whole board in advance, all face down. Then they flip the turn or river at the appropriate moment. If the cards are marked, their values will be known in advance.
Expertmagician
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Iamslow,

Here are my thoughts based upon your questions and comments above:

Question: Hi Expert, I noticed you mentioned juice dust?? Ive never heard of this, and I am assuming it comes in a dry form?? How is this different from liquid juice???

Answer: Juice is liquid form is available in a no-mess marker from http://www.marked-cards.com or in a jar (using a brush or Q-tip) from cardsourcerer. The products from both companies will mark about the same number of decks.... and you don't have to worry about "set-time" with the no-mess marker.

Juice Dust has only been around for about 4-5 months and is only available from http://www.marked-cards.com . It can best be thought of as a daub, but significantly better because it may be used on paper as well as KEM/Copag cards. Another advantage is that it is not a paste, so it will never dull the finish of cards like a daub paste can.

Question: I was talking to a few people and was told that juice can be detected from the surveillance cameras just as well as in person.. Ive never seen it throuh a camera except on the GPS tapes...

Answer: Juice can be detected from casino surveillance cameras if they suspect juice. However, if the zoom in and focus on the cards they will ot be able to see the juice. Bottom line is that if they are looking for juice, the casinos will find it.

Question: As far as luminous readers, it would be pretty difficult to use in a casino because a lot of places use the red see through discard holders and the clipboards that's used in the pits are clear seethrough red as well which makes it easy for a supervisor to pick it up and walk up to a table and pretend to do a float count but really look through the clipboard onto the backs of the cards in play...

Answer: The red filters which the casinos use are specifically designed to tune in onto 2 light frequencies:

1) To catch luminous markings
2) To catch IR markings

I hope this helps !
Long Island,

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