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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Ever so sleightly » » Standing Loads (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

Doug Peters
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With your kind indulgence, I'd like to resurrect an old thread:

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......forum=37

The issue?
- Loading the Cups and Balls while standing.
The hardware options:
- Pouch
- Pockets
- Clips
The philosophical options:
- absolutely no flashing
- flashing the "extreme angles" is acceptable

So the (philosophical) question is: "Do less-safe loading options create sufficient 'extra' magic in the minds of the front-and-center audience to more than make up for the magic lost for that part of the audience that gets a flash of the loads?"

Thoughts? (for those interested, I include mine below)
-----------------------------------
Here's how I see it (and forgive the math -- it is what I do for a living):

The object of the exercise is to create the most "magic" possible.
The total magic (M) is the combination of all indiviual magic (M_i) for each member of the audience.

Now suppose (for sake of argument) that each audience member is the same.
Suppose further that for those audience members that gets a flash of a load, their individual magic is zero.
Let's also imagine that the more "courageous" loading options result in greater magic on the part of that part of the audience that are not flashed (this is certainly the case when I am that audience!) That is, "courageous" loading results in M'_i or 0 (depending on flash), while the "safe" loading options results in M_i for the entire audience, where M'_i > M_i.

The choice of loading options is then determined by:
p <> M_i/M'_i
where "p" is the proportion of the audience that does not get a flash of the load.

That is, if the chance of no-flash is greater that the ratio of "safe-magic" to "courageous-magic", then we go with the courageous loading option. On the other hand, if the chance of no-flash is lower than this ratio, we play it safe.

Now (if anybody made it this far! Smile) since the "extreme angles" make for poor viewing, as performers we always encourage our audiences to avoid those angles. So let's imagine that the value of "p" is always greater than 90% (i.e., there are at least nine folks watching from "friendly angles" for every person at a "bad angle").

Now I know that "typical" Cups-and-Balls loads create far less than 90% of the magic when I am an audience than (for example) Tommy Wonder's loads. But I wonder if this is the case for a "typical" lay-audience.
"if you have any answers, it's time to ask harder questions!"
Jim Wilder
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After much reflection...
Don't worry too much about it.

Do what is natural to you. Just entertain the people.
TheAmbitiousCard
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For a lay audience, the final loads are very large part of it.

Just like at a fireworks display, everyone loves a grand finale.
And you're giving them one they didn't even expect.

Like 2 olives in your martini when you were only expecting one.

If I feel that there are possible angle issues, I make sure I employ a lot
of eye contact and body movement for those particular spectators.

Do it the way you think it should be done and figure out a way to make it
work.
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Michael Baker
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Is he kidding??
~michael baker
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Bill Palmer
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I'm not going to post anything technical here, because it is an open forum, but a lot of it depends on the size of the load with respect to the hand, and the way you manage them with respect to the working surface.

Most of my techniques are covered here:
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......forum=37
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
Michael Baker
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...and certainly how you manipulate the audience. In that regard, they are like snowflakes... no two are alike.
~michael baker
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Doug Peters
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An excellent topic for a thread on its own, Michael! Smile
"if you have any answers, it's time to ask harder questions!"
KirkG
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I am going to say that you should never flash, if you can avoid it. Now the question becomes are you willing to do what is necessary to avoid it. I put people on either side of me in contact with my body. They shield all view points, not only for the loads, but the undesireable spectator spots for the rest of the routine. People will stare at anothers back for only so long before they move to improve, or move away.

I will also go so far as to omit the trick if the conditions cannot be MADE RIGHT.

Have some respect for the art, not just yourself.

Kirk
Bill Palmer
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There are a lot of ways to cover loads.

I was in a situation working in a mall once, where there was an atrium with a walkway around the top area. The stage was right below. I had a backdrop, but it didn't conceal everything. One of my illusions was a Harbin suspension that had a couple of bad angles, especially from upstairs.

A friend of mine came to see the show. He saw the setup and asked how I was going to cover the bad angles from upstairs. I told him to walk the area up at the top while I was performing. He did so.

He told me later what he saw. He said, "Just as I was about to the point where I knew the gimmick was going to come into view, I bumped into a cigarette urn. I moved past it, and there was a sign advertising something in the mall. By the time I got past that, the gimmick was out of view."

The mall manager was a sympathetic guy who liked magic, and he gave me permission to move things like that around to block off the bad angles.

Jack Gwynne used to do that with his assistants.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
Doug Peters
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Quote:
On 2006-03-29 15:16, KirkG wrote:
I am going to say that you should never flash, if you can avoid it.

And when you cannot avoid it, what do you do?
Here are the options:
- don't perform
- perform in a "less-magical" way

When my kids used to show me a magic trick, they'd say "close your eyes". At the other end of the scale is what real magic would look like. How much distance down the path from "real magic" to "no magic" are we willing to go to eliminate flashing?
Quote:
Have some respect for the art, not just yourself.

huh?
"if you have any answers, it's time to ask harder questions!"
steve j
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Personally I never really worried about flashing, I believe that if you worry so much about something then you will inherently draw attention to it. Just be natural and don't worry about the load worry about they entertainment because after all if you keep them involved in the routine you could just drop the ball into the cup and that would be magic to them.
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