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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Grand illusion » » What do you know about the heading removal effect performed by DC? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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magicofCurtis
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Greetings,

I am looking to obtain plans for the effect that D.C. once performed... in which the lovely lady slides under a stand/table and her head is removed and placed on to a giant crate/box (m****r).... I believe this is (was) designed by Jim S., but is it in one of his books? I have an awesome concept for it and want to look more into it before fabrication.

Any info would be great.

Cheers.
Shrubsole
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Well I understand the workings of it just by viewing it, but then you probably do as well.

I'm sure someone who buys books of plans will be able to tell you if it appeared in any book - however, I doubt it and as usual DC's working is his own.

So given that you know how it's done and have your own concept for doing it, what is it that you want/need to know?
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The Drake
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If memory serves me correctly then it's an Andre Kole effect and not available to anyone other than DC and Tim Kole. (the only two I've ever seen do it)

Best,

Tim
mvmagic
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Tim's absolutely right, it is Andre's creation. I contacted Andre about an illusion of mine which in a way resembles "Head Mover" - method wise, at least; and he said "Head Mover" is being performed only by the mentioned two.
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reedrc
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The head mover was designed by Andre Kole, and the added piece was from Jim Stienmeyer. Interestengly, JS also used this piece On broadway in Beauty and the Beast. Which is equally deceptive... A cool piece.
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mvmagic
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Ryan, by "added piece" do you mean placing the head on another table? Or maybe there's something I haven't seen. Hope all is well with you.
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magicofCurtis
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Well, the only method I want to copy would be the "body" stystem. I want to eliminate the tables and the box... cool concept... hmmm, do you think I can have it built and be safe?

Again the body system is done in the headless horseman halloween costumes in a way ...... hehhehehe wink...
reedrc
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Hi Mv, very busy with things. Yeah, the added piece was something added from JS (the table the head is moved to) as an after-thought. I Think it's a Mendoza piece (not sure) Cool as hell to see live... I was able to see both DC's and The Broadway version as well. Good stuff. Curtis: contact Jim to get a license to build this / and get referral to an offical and/or recommended builder. Why do this? Well, two reasons: because you need to pay Jim for being the cool cat who designed it, and so he can fork over the blueprints to the builder. The only way to do this correctly is to do it correctly, you know? Good luck, mate. It really is a cool bit. Simple and deceptive.
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Ryan C. Reed
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NFox
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From what I hear, recent, touring versions of Beauty and the Beast are doing without Steinmeyer's table and are instead just using a tea trolley that has a cloth draped over it, skirting the floor. Oh well.

Curtis: If you are referring to the portion of the illusion where the girl's head is actually slid off of her shoulders, I would still play it safe and try to contact Andre Kole. He would be the best person to ask if you are concerned about making sure that all creators and their creation are respected (which it sounds like you are).

Nick Fox
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leapinglizards
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This also has its roots in an illusion from the magic of Robert Harbin, so it is out there and available in a form.
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magicleland
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I know for a fact that somebody on World's Greatest Magic did it with a base-like table to set the head on. Very thick!
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freefallillusion1
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Quote:
On 2006-03-29 08:09, magicleland wrote:
I know for a fact that somebody on World's Greatest Magic did it with a base-like table to set the head on. Very thick!


You are referring to Tim Kole, who, as mentioned, is one of the few doing this piece. The table is Rand Woodbury's "Z" table and was published in Illusionworks volume one.
reedrc
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Nick: was talking about the BROADWAY version in NY - not the touring version. FYI
Quote:
"I am looking to obtain plans for the effect that D.C. once performed... in which the lovely lady slides under a stand/table and her head is removed and placed on to a giant crate/box (m****r)...."


It would appear that he's referring to the M****RBOX, not the headmover for which he should contact JS for rights, NOT Andre Kole..

Freefall:
Not the Z table he was referring to, it was something the blonde guy did with a huge hair dryer thing, and sort of a headmover thing made with this m****rbox... forgot the guys name I think he's German or Austrian or something... not sure.


~R
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Ryan C. Reed
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NFox
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Quote:
On 2006-03-29 10:07, reedrc wrote:
Nick: was talking about the BROADWAY version in NY - not the touring version. FYI

It would appear that he's referring to the M****RBOX, not the headmover for which he should contact JS for rights, NOT Andre Kole..


Oh, I thought he was talking about the first portion of it based on his post that stated:

Quote:
Well, the only method I want to copy would be the "body" stystem. I want to eliminate the tables and the box... cool concept... hmmm, do you think I can have it built and be safe?

Again the body system is done in the headless horseman halloween costumes in a way ...... hehhehehe wink...


But I am tired, so I am only guessing. Hopefully Curtis can clear up some of this confusion. Long story short, Curtis. If you want to try and build something similar to the box that the head box is placed on, contact Steinmeyer. If you are looking to build something more akin to the actual head removal, Kole is your man.

And with regards to Beauty and the Beast: I saw the original Broadway production and thought the ******box worked amazingly well in context, I just think it is a shame that the current production(s) that many people are seeing don't have that beautiful prop to enhance the "illusion" of reality. But, like I said, "Oh well." What are we magicians, designers, and builders gonna do?

Nick Fox
"Obscuring Reality"- Gone but not forgotten...

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magicofCurtis
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Okay to clear things up...

I am not going to use a box for the display of the head, so no m****r. I am not using a table for the body system, I am using two sawhorses and a board that is assembled in front of the audience. Then the head will be removed to another set of sawhorses and board. The boards are so thin, the hidden parts are placed in a kick-butt fashion.


I just need to use the s***l for the body.
reedrc
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Sounds cool. Good luck. Smile Let us know when it's done. It would be cool to see it.
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Ryan C. Reed
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designer, director, theatrical consultant, digital wizard, magic impresario, wonder aficionado, Illusioneer & dream architect.

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Shrubsole
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This is always an interesting argument that we keep getting in the Café with always as many opinions as people!

Obviously, if you do a head removal system that uses the same method and setup as DC's one, then of course it is not correct in doing so.

But the other point is that the person who developed the DC one didn't actually invent that way of appearing to have no head and as has been said, it's been a part of Halloween costumes for decades. (Trying to be cryptic here as we are not in secret sessions, but you know what I mean about the method.)

So, there does seem to be a group of people who think that when someone takes and old method and does something new with that age-old method, not only do they own all intellectual property rights to the new effect (Which of course they do!), but somehow, retrospectively also own all the rights to an age-old principle or idea that is public domain. (Which is ridiculous!)

So were do pomposity and ridiculous divide?

And even in the second part of the illusion: Putting a head on a M***** table and moving it in that manner may be copyrighted but he didn't invent M***** tables as seems to be implied.
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Terry Holley
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As has been pointed out, "Headmover" is Andre's creation. At one of David Copperfield's shows in Phoenix years ago he acknowledged Andre in the audience and pointed out that the idea for the illusion came from Andre.

At this point in time I believe only David Copperfield and Tim Kole have the permission to present the illusion.

The right thing to do is to seek permission from Andre to have it built and use it. But keep in mind that he still tours with it and it has been exclusive to those named above for many years.

Terry
Co-author with illusionist Andre' Kole of "Astrology and Psychic Phenomena."
closeupmagician
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The magician on the World's Greatest Magic was not Kole, it was Hans Klok and Zeta. There was a long box which allowed the head to first be 'cut' with a long blade, and then slid along the top of it by a hair dryer.
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Chase
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The Hans Klok illusion is titled "Headless" and is also a Jim Steinmeyer creation. It takes the Copperfield/Kole/Steinmeyer "HeadMover" and combines it into a one box illusion.

Posted: Mar 29, 2006 6:18pm
Just checked and Tim Kole actually did perform "Headless" on World's Greatest Magic. His version is different from Copperfield's in a couple of regards. His head box is gimmicked similar to the "Disembodied Princess" headbox (including a scarf and giant sunglasses.) During the first phase of the routing, when the head box is slid to the side of the body, the box is opened to show his assistant's face. During the second phase the head box is placed on a Rand Woodbury "Z-Table". The head box is re-opened and the assistant's head bobs in time with the soundtrack. Can't describe anymore differences without tipping the method.
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