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jkesler Loyal user 246 Posts |
Well said Ron...
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cardone Special user 860 Posts |
Thanks for showing religious intolerance my friend...Ron.......Thanks .....I love how people bash in right away ...... If I called a well known christian leader a name like ignominious ,which I wouldn't.... it would be pulled in 2 seconds .......
Mr.big words likes to show off.....Look at his post....... very overwrought with condescension ! |
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Ron Giesecke Special user Redding, Ca. 947 Posts |
Cardone,
"Ignominious" means "discreditable." Hardly an imflammatory word--unless one didn't bother to look it up. Sorry, but neither words like "overwrought" nor "Condescension" really qualify as an isolating use of the language. I'm sorry you see it that way. And as for religious intolerance: I merely illustrated my later contention that the last person that should be quoted with regards to self-delusion is a guy who claimed that a spell he cast was responsible for the death of Jayne Mansfield. My main point was this: Not everybody's going to like, or agree with magical performances. Our job is to get over it, despite our intrinsic need to have the masses believe we are omnipotent beings. |
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cardone Special user 860 Posts |
I did look it up......
Main Entry: ig·no·min·i·ous Pronunciation: "ig-n&-'mi-nE-&s Function: adjective 1 : marked with or characterized by disgrace or shame : DISHONORABLE 2 : deserving of shame or infamy : DESPICABLE 3 : HUMILIATING, DEGRADING <suffered an ignominious defeat> - ig·no·min·i·ous·ly adverb - ig·no·min·i·ous·ness noun As for Lavey ...WOW you really missed his sense of humor or showmanship!...The guy was a master showman.......and a master stage magician who didn"t need to perform tricks to create magic.....every thing he did was laced with comedy.....even his PR stunts... ...born every minute |
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Ron Giesecke Special user Redding, Ca. 947 Posts |
Nice attempt at the retro-save. None of those definitions would have gotten your post killed, either.
"Dishonorable" is, oddly enough, the definition that comes after "discreditable" in my dictionary. As to LaVaey AGAIN: let me quote him: "Behold the crucifix. What does it symbolize? Pallid Incompetence hanging on a tree." Let me see, was this the patter he used before sponge bunnies, or before conducting an orgy at 6114 California street with his underage daughter watching? Yep, funny, funny guy. A complete, knee-slapping riot. Though I will admit, the above quote fares not much worse than some of the things I've seen leveled by other "master showmen." I am now through discussing (and believe me, the amount of words I've put to him has been a literal waste of perfectly good carpal action) him, or his sad, anti-climactic legacy. And nice shot with the implied "sucker" hit. I'm sure Anton LaVey and Sam Kinison would be proud. I understand they're both a bit preoccupied at the moment. |
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Ron Giesecke Special user Redding, Ca. 947 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-04-11 09:10, RickyD wrote: Back to the topic at hand, I think this is the most reasoned post on the subject. |
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cardone Special user 860 Posts |
...Happily roasting marshmallows.....I can't wait to join them.....
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Bill Nuvo Inner circle 3094 Posts or 2742 Posts |
It seems like we are talking about two different things here. Belief and ignorance. Both are separate I think.
You cannot argue with someone about thier beliefs...as in they believe that gospel rock and gospel magic are a way to the devil. They are not claiming that it is real magic. They acknowledge that it is trickery and deceit, which is where I can see how they are saying it is down the wrong road. We are lying in essence. However, ignorance stems from refusing to acknowledge the facts (providing you have had access to those facts). So if you try to explain to someone that it is achieved through natural means and they say that you are trying to confuse them and it really is devil's and demons, than I would constitute that as ignorance. If the person claims that it is demons and real and has had or isn't given any facts to prove the contrary, then that person is not ignorant, just not informed. Of course I may be way off on this, but this is how I see it. I can stand to be corrected. |
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Tony S Special user New York 582 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-04-10 22:28, Pete Biro wrote: Well said, Pete. Clear, succinct, and to the point! |
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Tony S Special user New York 582 Posts |
My wife's aunt is a born again Christian. She and I discussed magic at length one day, and she was very receptive to the fact that it's all just illusion and that there are no real magic powers at play.
Then she started to talk about me doing a show for her church, but thought better of it because too many people there would think magic is the work of the devil. To quote a great man 'People are nuts.' |
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EsnRedshirt Special user Newark, CA 895 Posts |
I did perform a show for my church a few years back, and there were a great many congregation members in attendance. I didn't even put a religous spin on it, just performed my standard show. No one thought it was "satanic" or "of the devil"; they knew it was just a show, and good, clean fun. I got quite a few compliments afterwards. Interestingly enough, this was a United Methodist congregation, a particular denomination which is sometimes known for being somewhat, well... closed-minded. It just goes to show you that people are different in different places.
Self-proclaimed Jack-of-all-trades and google expert*.
* = Take any advice from this person with a grain of salt. |
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Terry Holley Inner circle 1805 Posts |
Is this any different than all the "non-church" folk who actually believed that I had some form of ESP when I performed over 400 mentalism shows at at Cedar Point theme park way back in the summer of 1972 (even with an old "Robert Nelson disclaimer")?
As some of you know, Christian illusionist Andre Kole and I co-authored the following book (see link) to help deal with these concerns. If you are not aware of it you may be interested to check it out: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0310489......n=283155 Check out the "search inside" option to see a few of the pages. It was written for the Christian community in an attempt to educate them to paranormal/occult claims. Those of you with a different belief system will probably not agree with all the research. It may be helpful for some of you in the future. One of the chapters deals with many of the verses in the Bible that refer to "magic" (etc.). If this post is looked upon by anyone as illegitimate advertising on this forum, feel free to report it and have it deleted. Terry
Co-author with illusionist Andre' Kole of "Astrology and Psychic Phenomena."
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cardone Special user 860 Posts |
What about when facts conflict with beliefs? Carl Sagan and Mathew Alpert called it cognitive dissonence when this happens..... this is like when people say the dinosaur bones were put in the earth to test our faith or to decieve us...... hard to follow that one...
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Ron Giesecke Special user Redding, Ca. 947 Posts |
I'm still waiting for Nuclear Winter . . .
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cardone Special user 860 Posts |
So am I ...The plant is heating up.... not cooling down....and our leaders are having cognitive dissonance in their brains ...and can't do anything to help.....
Oh well Armageddon will happen any day now so who cares... |
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Bill Scarlett Veteran user Vermont 366 Posts |
I think this topic is a bit of a straw-man topic, in that it sets up people with religious beliefs to be knocked down for their "nutty" beliefs. I am not a very religious person myself, but I have to say, that I think some contributors to this thread have been quite disrespectful in their treatment of religion. I appreciate the folks on here who have been more respectful and not used this discussion to simply bash religion. If your attitude is highly disdainful of religious folks, don't be surprised if they don't hire you, even if they don't think magic is the work of the devil.
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Ron Giesecke Special user Redding, Ca. 947 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-04-14 07:48, cardone wrote: LOL And of course a planetary fluctuation in our little short 100-years of measuring such things must be interpreted politically . . . SUV's caused the Ice Age, too, I understand. |
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jkesler Loyal user 246 Posts |
Yes, according to Robert Kennedy Jr....the SUV gas usage is a direct link to global warming...at least that is what he said when he was flying on a private jet to speak at local college. By the way..I think Ron may have been the captain of the debate team; Ron accept my applause for points well said.
Best, James |
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cardone Special user 860 Posts |
No Kyoto .....so sad......
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Ron Giesecke Special user Redding, Ca. 947 Posts |
If only we'd done the same with the UN . . .
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