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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » I want to see the manager! » » Copyright To Our Posts » » TOPIC IS LOCKED (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

cloneman
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475 Posts

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Please notice that at the bottom of the page is a statement which reads: “All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2006 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.”

This statement can not mean what it seems to. Is Mr. Brooks claiming a copyright in all of our posts? If so, I emphatically protest.

It would seem ironic to the highest degree if a forum, which is largely dedicated to the safeguarding of magician’s intellectual property rights, were attempting to capture the intellectual property rights of those who posted to the forum.

As an author and attorney I have posted excerpts from my articles and other writings with the intent to share my knowledge with the magic community… not with the intent to transfer any ownership interest in the materials to Mr. Brooks or the Café. At most, the Café has a non-exclusive license to display my copyrighted materials.

I give Mr. Brooks the benefit of the doubt and assume that the copyright notice should be read to mean that he is claiming copyright to all of the content created by him or created by the entity which owns the website and that NO COPYRIGHT INTEREST IS BEING CLAIMED IN THE POSTINGS OF THE CAFÉ MEMBERS (Staff, perhaps, excluded).

I welcome the opportunity for Mr. Brooks to clarify this issue.

Thank you.
"Anything is possible... if you don't know what you are talking about."
NFox
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Inner circle
I Do Mentalism Now?!
1101 Posts

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I believe somewhere (I can't seem to find it now), Steve Brooks claimed that while the posts themselves are copyrighted all ideas remain our exclusive intellectual property. I can't remember where I saw it, or if it really even exists, but to the best of my memory that is the policy.

Nick Fox
"Obscuring Reality"- Gone but not forgotten...

FoxIllusions.com
cloneman
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Profile of cloneman
I would love to see that policy; it would be appalling and inaccurate if it was the policy. Under U.S. law, in contexts like this one, the transfer of a copyright interest must be “in writing and signed by the owner of the rights conveyed or such owner's duly authorized agent.” See 17 U.S.C. 204.

The posting of a copyright notice claiming ownership in another’s copyright will not suffice.
"Anything is possible... if you don't know what you are talking about."
Steve Brooks
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Founder / Manager
Northern California - United States
4755 Posts

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cloneman, I see from your profile that you have been a member here since 2004. Our Rules and Policies are available for all to see and we do not attempt to hide them. In addition, the copyright notice at the bottom of the page has always been there, this is nothing new. In fact, each member (by checking the little box upon joining) states that he has read and agrees to said policies, so I'm not sure why our rules surprise you. You did read them before agreeing to them, at least according to our records you did check the little box. I'm not trying to be sarcastic here, just trying to clarify a few things, that's all. Smile

The section of our policies having to do with copyright information can be found Here!.

The paragraph that might concern you is the following:
----------------------------------
Postings/Disclaimer & Copyright information:

Although we make a sincere effort to monitor and or review discussions
or postings on The Magic Café, be it known that we are under no obligation to do so. You remain solely responsible for the content of your messages, and you agree to indemnify and hold harmless The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, Steve Brooks Magic, The Magic Bakery and their agents with respect to ANY claim based upon ANY POST or MESSAGE you may make.

We are not responsible or liable for any claim arising from the content of said discussions or postings. Nor will we be held responsible or liable for any error, omission, falsehood, slander, libel, defamation, obscenity, profanity, pornography, danger or inaccuracy contained in information within the discussions or postings on this site. We reserve the right to remove and or delete any post, at any time, with no reason given.

In no event shall either The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, Steve Brooks Magic or its affiliated or related entities be responsible or liable to any person or entity whatsoever (including, without limitation, persons who may use or rely on such data/materials, information or recommendations obtained from this site, or persons to whom such data/materials may be furnished) for any loss, damage (whether actual, consequential, punitive or otherwise), injury, claim, liability or other cause of any kind or character whatsoever based upon or resulting from any data/material provided by or obtained from this site; whether resulting from errors in or omissions from such material, any use of such material by third party, the content of any such material or otherwise.

Please know that we will fully cooperate with any law enforcement agency or court orders requesting or directing us to disclose the identity of anyone posting or transmitting any unlawful, obscene, scandalous, defamatory, threatening, libelous, pornographic, profane, inflammatory, or any material that could constitute or encourage conduct that would be considered a criminal offense, give rise to civil liability, or otherwise violate any law.

In addition, postings made on this website are considered to be contributions (donations) and given to this site free of charge, and as such automatically become the publishing property of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, The Magic Bakery, and/or Steve Brooks Magic. No kind of royalties, fees or other monetary considerations of any kind are promised, expressed or implied to authors of said postings. Members who make such postings do so of their own free will and understand that posting here is no different then contributing/donating an article to a magic magazine, which then holds the copyright to the article.

However, that is not to say you do not own the intellectual property rights to perhaps an original idea or concept contained within said post/article (which you of course reserve the right to market at some later date) you may be discussing here. Steve Brooks, The Magic Café, The Magic Bakery and/or Steve Brooks Magic simply owns that particular article being posted, and may freely use as we see fit any said article/post in any projects (now or in the future) associated with The Magic Café, The Magic Bakery, Steve Brooks and/or Steve Brooks Magic be it on or off this website.

Please remember that the entire contents of this web site © Copyright 2001-2006 Steve Brooks. All rights reserved. This notice overrides any alleged copyright or license claimed by any person or entity absent a signed writing that complies with the requirements for transferring the entire copyright. This includes, but is not limited to, translation or other creation of derivative works, use in advertising or other publicity materials without prior written authorization. Commercial use, publicity or advertising use, or republication in any form will be treated as an infringement absent written authorization. In other words, no portion of this web site, including text and images, may be used in any manner without the express written consent of the site owner, Steve Brooks.

In that light, you can understand why we do not want members posting articles that have been taken from other message boards on the net. Taking a small portion of a post, or quoting is a different matter of course.

That said, if you are really concerned about your material, it's probably not a good idea to post it on The Magic Café or anywhere else in cyberspace.

Please know that the above rules are not up for debate or discussion. When you become a member of The Magic Café you agree to adhere and follow all the rules and policies we have here and it is your responsibility to know and understand these rules. Further, we (The Magic Café/Steve Brooks Magic) reserve the right to change or ammend these rules at any time and with no notice given, so members are encouraged to check here often for any possible updates, additions or changes to the above written policies. Thank you. Smile
---------------------------------

I hope this helps to clarify any questions that you may have. Smile
"Always be you because nobody else can" - Steve Brooks
cloneman
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Profile of cloneman
I maintain that the Magic Café’s copyright policy, its manner of posting and notification, and the membership sign-up process do not constitute a “signed writing” as that term is construed under the copyright laws of the United States, and thus no exclusive copyrights in my posts have been transferred to you or the Magic Café.

To avoid further confusion, I shall refrain from posting any further protected material.

Thank you for your response.
"Anything is possible... if you don't know what you are talking about."
Jonathan Townsend
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Eternal Order
Ossining, NY
27137 Posts

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I understand the claim of copyright to all posts on the Café protects the contents from being copied elsewhere.

I feel there is some expressed concern about content posted making its way into other media.

What is your position on this?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
NFox
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Inner circle
I Do Mentalism Now?!
1101 Posts

Profile of NFox
If you are really concerned about the Café claiming your ideas, but you still want to be a "Magician Helping Magicians" you can propagate your ideas through PM's.

I for one am just glad that I didn't imagine the Café's stance on this issue. Smile

Nick Fox
"Obscuring Reality"- Gone but not forgotten...

FoxIllusions.com
RandyStewart
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Inner circle
Texas (USA)
1989 Posts

Profile of RandyStewart
Quote:
On 2006-04-14 15:58, cloneman wrote:
This statement can not mean what it seems to. Is Mr. Brooks claiming a copyright in all of our posts? If so, I emphatically protest.


Well protest in any fashion you desire. You're not the first to protest this matter and like them, the protest will remain impotent at best.

Perhaps you should save your posts for a book that bares your name and copyright? That or post away with discretion and have fun with it.
hugmagic
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7414 Posts

Profile of hugmagic
I understand that my posts are copyrighted by the Café. However, I do understand where Cloneman is coming from. It seems that this is a one way street. Only the information given on the Café becomes property of the Café not the liability.

I understand that Mr. Brooks/the Café does not and should not accept the liability of remarks of members that might be inappropriate or liablious. However, I would think that ideas remain the intellilectual property of the originator unless he dictates otherwise.

For exsample, if I want to post part of my lecture materials on the Café (which are already copyright), I am retaining that copyright. I am not transferring the ownership of that to the Café by posting it.

I agree the idea is to help each other out. That is what I try to do. But I am not going to be posting anything of any detail or possible manufacturing ideas on the general posts unless I have previously protected it with a copyright. That is just good business.

Having said all this, I still want to help guys and I think the Café has to be protected from crackpots who would sue at the drop of a hat. Too bad it is not a perfect world.

Richard
Richard E. Hughes, Hughes Magic Inc., 352 N. Prospect St., Ravenna, OH 44266 (330)296-4023
www.hughesmagic.com
email-hugmagic@raex.com
Write direct as I will be turning off my PM's.
Dave V
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Las Vegas, NV
4825 Posts

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I don't pretend to know anything about copyright law, but as a former staff member here, I can understand Steve's position.

Staff members are constantly monitoring posts for inappropriate content, spelling, grammar, all sorts of things. Taking ownership of the posts *as they exist on the Café* simplifies things greatly as we (sorry, they) don't have to ask permission before making these corrections and and fielding even more complaints from the "owners" of the posts.

I think the system has worked well and will continue to do so.
No trees were killed in the making of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
RandyStewart
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Inner circle
Texas (USA)
1989 Posts

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Quote:
On 2006-04-14 20:01, hugmagic wrote:

I understand that Mr. Brooks/the Café does not and should not accept the liability of remarks of members that might be inappropriate or liablious. However, I would think that ideas remain the intellilectual property of the originator unless he dictates otherwise.


Unfortunately the only thing that remains property of the originator (in many cases lacking copyright) is the responsibility of knowing where and when, if ever, to post such original ideas. The 'www' in cyberspace still stands for Wild Wild West. I'm not defending the Café as much as I'm reminding myself of having my own idea kidnapped and currently offered on the market. Lesson learned for Randy Stewart.

Quote:
But I am not going to be posting anything of any detail or possible manufacturing ideas on the general posts unless I have previously protected it with a copyright. That is just good business.


Agreed and those are the items I no longer bring to the table as much as idle chatter on a great discussion board.
Josh Riel
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Inner circle
of hell
1999 Posts

Profile of Josh Riel
As I said earlier in a thread that has been moved and locked, I have no issue with this, as I have never said anything useful to anyone... EVER! I suggest you do the same!

I have yet to find fault with the Café' for any of it's practices. I think that as a lawyer one may see a dilemma, but as a man, I think I will trust another at his word, and should such prove lacking, I will remember. Also I believe as this is an impersonal place as is any on the internet, one would chose to use restraint anyway.

I just regret that my earlier post will not count toward my total. This will make it harder to reach the "Eternal Order" that I covet.
Magic is doing improbable things with odd items that, under normal circumstances, would be unnessecary and quite often undesirable.
Steve Brooks
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Founder / Manager
Northern California - United States
4755 Posts

Profile of Steve Brooks
I think this whole issue is rather interesting. I get the feeling that some think there is some kind of evil conspiracy at work or something. I also find it odd that an educated person would join a website, agree to its terms, then wait two years before voicing any kind of concern - strange.

We are up front with everyone here and assume that folks actually read our policies before they agree to said rules. I certainly would never sign a contract without reading its contents, but that's just me I suppose.

We state our terms quite plainly and encourage folks NOT to post things they do not want others to read or see somewhere else in the future. You may come enter my house and write on my wall, but don't complain if I paint over that wall or decide to move the wall into a new house someday - it is after all, my wall. Should you decide to write the same thing elsewhere, that is of course your affair...but I still own the wall you wrote upon and will do what I like with the wall, paint and all. This site is a free site, meaning I pay the bills and see to the up keep around this wonderful community, in exchange I ask very little of our members. Mainly manners, respect and a little common sense.

If anyone here truly believes I have some sort of secret agenda or something, they need to get out more often. I understand that nobody has actually said such a thing, but I do get that feeling when reading this topic. As of this writing, The Magic Café is almost five years old. I have always been honest with folks and I do not believe I ask too much of anyone. If you do not agree with the terms of this website, please do NOT pretend that you do by joining.

In the end, nobody is saying you've lost your idea, concept or whatever when you post here. You simply give the post proper to us to use as we see fit in connection with The Magic Café name, that's all. I thought I was quite clear about this subject when I wrote the rules and policies those many years ago.

I hope this helps to clarify any misunderstanding that anyone might have about my stance on this subject and I will now consider the matter closed. Smile
"Always be you because nobody else can" - Steve Brooks
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