I'm looking to upgrade my mini DV camcorder right now, but I could really use some advice. Can anyone share their opinion of the Canon XL2? I'm also considering the Canon GL2 and Sony DCR-VX2100, both of which are only half the price. However, I could be barking up the wrong tree; does anyone have other recommendations? I would love to hear your personal experiences with these or any 3CCD models for that matter. Overall, I want something with a knock-out lens that will capture stage work well, and will give me the cinematic quality I want to work with in my personal projects (aperture control & a narrow depth of field capability is a must). I've heard mixed reviews on HD, but should I forget the SD models all together? Sony's HDR-FX1 HDV looks incredible and I find myself leaning in that direction, as well.

Thanks,

Angela

I've worked with the Canon Xl and GL models... they are fantastic. My feature film was shot with both of those cameras. You can't go wrong getting them.

Greg

A great 3-ccd camera is the Panasonic AGDVX100B. I would stay away from the prosumer HD cameras for right now. Simply because the technology is new and right now there is no DVD players on the market that can support HD DVD's (that will change soon but they will be expensive). The Canon GL2 and XL2 are really good as well. They look cool too . Fo the money check out the panasonic though.
Good luck
JTW

Good point-- I had similar sentiments regarding ProHD. Apparantly the technology is even so new that some things aren't up to par, namely the low-light capability. Greg-- did the GL2 ever give you the "eject tape" problem I've heard about? Other than that it seems like the perfect camcorder.

The Panasonic looks nice as well. I have to admit that I've always been partial to Canon lenses as far as photography goes, and now I'm feeling biased... haha.

So much to consider. Eventually, after I make my somewhat-final decision I'm going to call B&H to figure every little detail out. Until then: suggestions more than welcome!

Angela

Never had the problem of ejecting the tape.

Greg

"there is no DVD players on the market that can support HD DVD's"

that should have been "There ARE no DVD players that can support HD DVD's"

I abhor poor grammar.

The Panasonic films in 16:9 native and has a 24 frames per second progressive scan maode. That means it will have the look of film.

Video is what the eye sees, Film is what the imagination sees.

That should be "mode" and not "maode"... I abhor poor spelling.

Greg

Boy, where to start! I guess it boils down to the old 'what's your budget' question.

Personally, I am making the switch to high def. It's my opinion that HD isn't something that's right around the corner. It's here now. I really think purchasing standard def cameras today would be like buying a Laserdisc player the week DVDs started coming out.

Regarding which flavor of HD, I'd really stay away from any of the HDV cameras. HDV was designed to cram an HD signal onto a miniDV tape, which has a limited bandwith. It was originally made as a consumer level HD product. In fact, Discovery channel and PBS will only allow I think 10-15% of any one program to be shot with HDV. They don't like it. They want pro level HD, not consumer level, for a reason.

I love Canon also, especially the XL-1. GREAT lens (both the 16x and 3x)! But I think Panasonic is the way to go. Panasonic is really WAY ahead of all the others, and for good reason.

If you are shooting for low light, the only solution is to get a bigger chip (1/2 inch or 2/3 inch). But there's a new kid on the block. Panasonic's high def camera, the HVX-200, is the best camera for the job (and price). In fact, here are some screen captures from the HVX-200 in a theater setting:

http://www.ullanta.com/OperaHVXTest/

It doesn't use the HDV compression, which means you can edit, re-edit and export to your heart's content with no loss in quality. HDV compression is like DVD compression. One frame holds the info, the next "group of pictures" holds relative info. Result is smaller file, but when there is lots of motion, you see the quality take a nose dive. Also, once you edit HDV, you have to 're-compress' it and, again, quality can take a nose dive.

Plus, if you're recording in a show setting, you can export from the camera direct to an external hard drive using a Powerbook or MacBookPro and Final Cut Pro. Very nice. No capturing video ever again. You've got the raw files on a hard drive and can start editing the minute the show's over! No more tape!!!

This really is the way to go. The downside, cash. HVX is $6,000, plus MacBookPro/Powerbook.

And, technically, there are no Blueray or HD-DVD players out right now, you can still downcovert to SD (standard def) and have a much richer image than footage from an SD cam. Plus, you'll have footage that will be HD ready.

Cheers,
Scott

Greg, Awesome to hear about the film you did. How did you enjoy making it?

Yes Mode... Don't you hate it when you correct a mistke and then make a brand new one at the same time? Talk about multi-tasking!
Cheers for the fix,
JTW

It was a blast. Wish I could do it again. I've got four scripts ready to go, but need the money to fund them. I'm trying all avenues.

Greg

The Canon XL has been used to shoot a lot of indies and several magic video's. I used the panasonic with adjustable speeds with good results.
Try to get your hands on them and give them a test. Also, consider how well they interface with your editing set up and how much the add on accessories will cost.

Which panasonic did you use kregg?

Yes, the XL series is very good. I own one and rent others as I need (as well as the DVX-100).

When my company produced the New York Coin Magic Seminar Coins Across DVD, we used two of the XL series. You can see the quality of the cameras shine. Of course, lighting and other factors do come into play as well.

Greg, good luck with your funding! Editing is fun, but there's nothing like in the trenches production!

cheers!
Scott

JTW,
I think the equivalent today is the DVX-100. Although, other manufacturer's have included this feature, I would still recommend that you stay with Canon or Panasonic. Sony makes a great product, but, I don't like their in camera software (personal preference).

Yeah, Greg-- good luck!! And congrats on your film!

Scott-- the HVX200 is phenomenal... wow... HD, 24p, and that kind of image finally all put together. If you're getting that... wow... For me it's down to a few others, though. I think I'm opting for a 1/3" chip, so that would eliminate the GL2. Sony's DSR-PD170 is producing some of the best low-light images in its class. Even at 3000 lux the colors are better than Canon's, which I find astonishing. Overall, that model is incredible, but there's no 24p. I'm not planning to downconvert to video, so that doesn't bother me too much. But are there any thoughts on how noticeable the differences are between 24p and 60i? I know I prefer the look of film over "live at five", but I guess there's always a trade-off. An editing platform like Vegas really shouldn't have trouble with 60i, should it?

Thanks, guys

Angela

I use Vegas and no it doesn't have a problem. For a look at footage shot with the AG-DVX100 check out this site comparing the 100 with Sony's PD-150
http://www.lafcpug.org/reviews/review_dvx_pd150.html

The differences are quite noticeable between 24p and 60i.

Vegas 6 has no problems with either and has the ability to edit HD as well. I love Vegas as a NLE.
Good luck and let us know which way you go,
JTW

You shouldn't have any problem with any of the main editing software packages with any of the main frame rates.

In fact, there are some great plugins for Final Cut (I'd imagine Vegas and Premiere have them as well) that can make standard 29.97 video look like 24p film. No idea how the math works (possibly a 3:2:2:3 pulldown or something similar), but it looks good. Do a Google search for "making video look like film."

Maybe if you have the time, you could rent the top contenders you're thinking about. Personally, if your budget permits, I would rent them all during one show so you can compare the images under the exact same lighting environment. You could then compare exact frames that are identical in framing, and compare how each camera handles that image. However, if you don't have the time/people to handle 3 different cameras, you could just as easily rent one per show for 2-4 shows. Then just compare how the footage looks.

Where are you located? Most major cities have production houses that rent. The DVX-100a usually goes for $125 / day (not including tapes, tripod). The HVX-200 is going for about $250 / day (not including P2 cards).

Good luck!!! Let us know how your search goes!

Scott

I'm also currently an XL-1 and Vegas 6 owner. I love them both dearly, although I'm looking into HD myself one of these days.

Update: I just got a seller at WonderPhil Productions. He will be taking DEN to CANNES next week to see if he can get any bites. He likes the film a lot so I'm hoping his buyers will, too.

Greg

Best of luck.