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RobertBloor
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On the Copperfield robbery thread we got into the discussion of whether or not this situation could've turned out better or worse with a concealed carry permit.

Please Note: The thread I'm starting here I DO NOT want to turn into a pro-CCW vs. anti-CCW thread. I think that would be a bit too far into the political relm for this forum.

That said, I would like to find out from others what steps they may have taken towards protecting themselves and their loved ones day-to-day. (again, not from a pro or anti CCW standpoint)

When you walk is your head on swivel?

How do you handle yourself when "something doesn't seem right" in a particular situation?

Does any carry weapons of somekind? (a knife, pepper spray, kubaton, firarm etc?)

As in Copperfield's situation (but one step further) what do you do if instead of just "give up your stuff" the attacker orders you to "get in the car" or "get in the trunk" - what do you do?

I'm of course asking as an American citizen, but would welcome the input of those from outside the US.

Violent crime effects every one of us in some way or another. Nobody is immune from it.

So I'm just wondering how prepared any of us are for the unexpected.

Again - let's not make this a gun/anti-gun debate. If you carry, fine, you can share that if you'd like. But I'd prefer stay out of that as it is a hot topic, and a very passionate/political one for some people.

Robert
"That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government,"
-The Declaration of Independence
Jerrine
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When you walk is your head on swivel?
No, but I am observant. An ounce of prevention and all.

How do you handle yourself when "something doesn't seem right" in a particular situation?
First option...bail, second option...get larger, step heavier, proceed with purpose, make enemy know I am aware of him/her then go to first option.

Does any carry weapons of some kind? (a knife, pepper spray, kubaton, firearm etc?)
I do carry weapons of some kind.

As in Copperfield's situation (but one step further) what do you do if instead of just "give up your stuff" the attacker orders you to "get in the car" or "get in the trunk" - what do you do?
I do not get in cars or trunks, just don't. Like one of my favorite cartoons, "Should I shoot him now or shoot him later?"..."Shoot him now! Shoot him now!!"
It becomes a close up showdown in the scenario you provided.
rossmacrae
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I feel blessed to live in a tree-lined community (in the middle of an urban setting) where you can see dog-walkers out in the middle of the night, and where my wife can walk after midnight without a worry.

But when I think of the "urban wasteland" settings where I used to accept shows, I sometimes shudder at the thought of what my "bravery" could have led to - I now simply rule out performing in the city.

On a lighter note - put yourself in the audience's place - you never met this magician before and he's got a rack of shiny knives on stage, what do you do when he urges you to "get in the box"?
DomKabala
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I am a Martial artist with years of experience in the ring and outside (streets). Something to ponder folks, the use of "weapons" (yes, your hands and feet are considered weapons) can get put you on the wrong end of the law. There are laws regarding the use of lethal force in a self defense situation. If you are trained in self defense then you should know about this. Your head is the best weapon, that is your brain and your 5 senses. Carrying a weapon requires knowledge in the proper use of it, all the weapons in the world are useless if you aren't properly trained. When confronted with a situation in that "something doesn't seem right" how will you react? Basically you will enter what is called "fight or flight" mode. Your body will begin to charge itself with adrenaline (epinephrine) in the first moments of the situation. If you are not trained in how to handle this increase of adrenalin your mind may become cloudy and everything (sense of time) seems to slow down, the mouth becomes dry and your heartbeat increases: your body is reacting to the threat. Your first instinct is to "run" away from the situation, which is a normal response. Training will help you control this response and keep your mind clear. If you can; "talk" down the perp and get thru the "wolfing" (a perp will first try to intimidate you with name calling, cursing/yelling and fierce body language and a mean stare). He may be brandishing a weapon such as a firearm, club or knife. Don't be a hero remain calm and do whatever he says. If you must use self defence (imminent death) then you better be ready to launch an all out assault on him and don't stop till you can get away. This requires training. I suggest that if you live in a high risk area, take a good self defence course that provides Adrenal based training scenarios to see how you will react in such situations. Reality based training is the only way to find out if you can fight back if you need to.
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Doug Higley
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Ross said: "I feel blessed to live in a tree-lined community (in the middle of an urban setting) where you can see dog-walkers out in the middle of the night, and where my wife can walk after midnight without a worry."


Same here Ross. Occasionaly a drunk wanders off the freeway...Yet the other night at the Supermarket there was a great commotion as all the male employees in the store headed for the front at a loud bell ringing. A few minutes later I saw two guys, rough looking 'not from around here' types sat on a bench surrounded waiting for the cops to show up. They had tried to steal OTC for probably drug making.

Safe zones are a myth.

Q. When you walk is your head on swivel?
A. Very alert to surroundings but not obviously so.

Q. How do you handle yourself when "something doesn't seem right" in a particular situation?
A.Alter course...re-asess.

Q.Does any carry weapons of somekind? (a knife, pepper spray, kubaton, firarm etc?)
A.Yes.

As in Copperfield's situation (but one step further) what do you do if instead of just "give up your stuff" the attacker orders you to "get in the car" or "get in the trunk" - what do you do?
A. One of us dies. Probably me as I'm not very strong but I ain't gettin' in nobody's trunk. Claustrophobia is a big motivator to kick all the ass I can muster.
Not having the strength or speed I used to have I would consider ANY physical attack life threatening and proceed from there. I would not be politically correct.
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RobertBloor
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Great responses guys.

I would agree with Doug about "safe zones are a myth." They're absolutely that.

Here in New Mexico, and I believe the trend is growing across the nation, roughly 80% (give or take) of property crimes are methamphetamine related.

They break in, steal what they can (in particular OTC sudephedrine) to hock for $20 to buy meth.

Here's something for you all to consider...
Criminals usually will take the path of least resistance. If someone ever orders you to drive them someplace, or get in the trunk etc...(in other words if their orders involve REMOVING YOU from the scene)...DON'T.

Do NOT under any circumstances allow yourself to be taken.

Here's one idea we got from a recent class - if you're at your car and someone tries to "remove you" from the scene, launch your keys as far across the parking lot as you can. (or on the roof of a building, or somewhere hard to find is where those keys need to go).

No keys? You just became a difficult target, and now there is no way you can be removed.

While the fight may not be over, you just took 1 very BIG step towards winning it.

Good ideas there guys. I really like what I'm hearing.

Quote:
Ross: On a lighter note - put yourself in the audience's place - you never met this magician before and he's got a rack of shiny knives on stage, what do you do when he urges you to "get in the box"?


Ha! That's funny. Now if I ever have a magician pull me onstage I'll think about this and get a chuckle.

Robert
"That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government,"
-The Declaration of Independence
rossmacrae
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Quote:
When confronted with a situation in that "something doesn't seem right" how will you react?

I heard an expert say that many serious incidents could be avoided if we just listened to that little inside voice that says "this situation makes me uncomfortable." By doing nothing (often because we don't want to be impolite or draw attantion to ourselves or whatever) we wind up in danger.
gsidhe
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Ooh...Fun topic...
Is my head on a swivel...
Nope. I tend to keep my head up, and make a lot of eye contact with those oncoming. Always listening at my back and using my periferal (Hrm...Never had to spell that before) vision.
How do I handle myself when things seem "Not Right"
Basically try to be even more alert. Try to "think" myself bigger and look for available weapons and escape routes. Might unhook the chain from my belt.
Do I carry weapons...
Not conventional ones. I usually have a belt chain when I am walking through more dangerous areas. I do a lot of meteor hammer(or Rope dart) and poi work, so chains of any sort are very comfortable and effective weapons for me. I used to carry a butterfly knife, but those are a wee bit too illegal around here. I'd never carry a gun. I feel they lack finesse.
If ordered to "get in the Car" or Trunk?
He had better have a gun or be pretty skilled and comitted, 'cause there is no way I am getting into the trunk of a car as long as I am conscious. Into the car? Maybe. Depends on if it is one person or two. One, then yes. If I am in the back seat, I might be able to get the attacker whilst distracted from driving, the front, I could interfere with his driving and smach the car. I might get hurt, but at least the vehicle will have some attnetion.
Has anyone ever run into or heard of the "Super Skunk" type of defense? It is a vial of liquid that when broken, releases a scent many times more powerful than a skunk, and does not go away unless the "antidote" is administered. A passive but effective defense. Especially a female in danger.
I am a firm believer that everyone should know how to, or have the means to defend themseves. Even passive devices like super skunk or personal alarms can help. My assistant would not carry pepper spray because it migh be accidentally discharged, or used against her, but she does carry a personal alarm.
Just some thoughts.
Gwyd.
RobertBloor
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Gwyd,

You make a good point about your assistant's choice w/pepper spray. Not so much to the extent that it might accidently discharge but that she (and all of us) have to carry what we are most comfortable with.

If you're not comfortable using a gun, then it's an expensive paper weight.
If you aren't comfortable w/pepper spray, then you won't use it in an attack.

BUT - if you ARE comfortable with a knife, or kubaton, or personal alarm (or super stink) good. Use what you're most comfortable with.

Robert
"That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government,"
-The Declaration of Independence
bitterman
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I just fear all people who are different from me and run from them whenever I see one. Seems to work so far.
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Corona Smith
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I carry a Laser guided banana, wear seebackospecs and talk to myself in a gruff voice...

Seems to do the trick.

Corona
Leland Stone
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Krazy4Kardz makes a good point about the legal liability attaching to a person using lethal force to defend him- or her-self. But isn't there an old joke about "I'd rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6?"

For those who have neither the inclination nor the patience to wade through Eastern metaphysics in order to achieve self-protection (rather than self-awareness), what form of training would anyone recommend?
Doug Higley
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S&W...and not the Green Stamps.
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Johnnie Blaze
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Don't sweat it when walking down the streets but be very aware of the on goings around you.. do not carry weapons as they can easily be taken away and used against you .. by those more trained.. remember a weapon is only an extention of the hand. he whom has no hands has no weapon. with trained hands anything which can extend the hand can become a weapon.. and remember stay calm , this is mind control and can be your strongest weapon carried. just a few small points I would like to pass along hopefully one never has to use them but if you should I hope they help
DomKabala
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Quote:
On 2006-05-02 10:44, Leland Stone wrote:
Krazy4Kardz makes a good point about the legal liability attaching to a person using lethal force to defend him- or her-self. But isn't there an old joke about "I'd rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6?"

For those who have neither the inclination nor the patience to wade through Eastern metaphysics in order to achieve self-protection (rather than self-awareness), what form of training would anyone recommend?
I am a staunch supporter of Israeli Krav Maga. This a no-nonsense straight forward system of self defense. Many schools are adopting this method of S.D. in their curriculum. Defending yourself in a life or death situation is no joke and Krav Maga is no joke...you better be in good shape, your life may depend on it. I am the designer of the Red Man XP self defense suit that is sold exclusively to Law Enforcement agencies and I have trained with such agencies in the use of it in their curriculum. I know about the use of lethal force and it is a thin fine line. I have been to the H&K training facilities in DC (after 9/11 and during the DC sniper shootings) and underwent training in the use of firearm defense tactics and the use of our WDS (Weapons Defense Suit) protective suit (designed by me and a coworker) using Simunition weapons which fire paint ball type projectiles. The Police/SWAT teams use our gear to train in exclusively, so I am qualified and I highly recommend Krav Maga training. Here's our website for the Red Man gear http://www.redmangear.com/
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Partizan
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SELF DEFENCE, kinda sounds like a martial art eh!
WRONG!

SELF DEFENCE is the art of defending oneself too the point of out surviving one's competitors.
If this means avoiding conflict or victory in conflict the outcome is similar if not the same.

You must use whatever tool you can to make sure you are the one who walks away least harmed.
"You cannot depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus."
- Mark Twain
Bill Palmer
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I'm an anomaly. I have fairly poor vision, so I am extra observant when I am out walking or driving. I don't pick fights. I avoid confrontations. If I'm in familiar surroundings, I know the best escape route. I look for the out of place.

But...I also have training in conflict resolution and the use of deadly force. I'm up on the law on both. If it comes down to "him or me" or "him or my family," there is not question as to who will be standing at the end of the round.

And who will be on his cell phone calling 911 and his attorney.
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Lee Darrow
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Rule One - be observant

Rule Two - THINK

A) be aware of places you can use to dodge into, like between cars to limit an attacker's ability to come at you

B) understand terrain - where can you go if you are threatened

C) understand your own reactions - the chemical cocktail (adrenaline, etc) WILL screw up fine motor control - fancy moves and pin-point targeting will go out the window when the cocktail hits

D) understand anatomy - know where to hit and where NOT to hit - a fist to the face usually results in broken knuckles and torn up hands from teeth. BAD idea. Knees, however, break at about 60lb pressure at a 45degree down angle. IF you can make the hit, that is. However, it's a tough shot to make.

3 - Know when to run and when not to - understand that if your opponent is younger and in seemingly better shape, then running will give your attacker an advantage, he will run you until you are winded and THEN beat you to a pulp. It's easier then.

4 - Know what to scream - yelling FIRE works better than yelling for the cops. People respond to a call for the firemen because their own homes could be in jeopardy. Calling the cops, well, many people don't want to "get involved."

Just a few things from a retired self defense instructor.

Lee Darrow, C.H.
http://www.leedarrow.com
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abc
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Quote:
On 2006-05-02 11:57, KRZ4kardz wrote:
Quote:
On 2006-05-02 10:44, Leland Stone wrote:
Krazy4Kardz makes a good point about the legal liability attaching to a person using lethal force to defend him- or her-self. But isn't there an old joke about "I'd rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6?"

For those who have neither the inclination nor the patience to wade through Eastern metaphysics in order to achieve self-protection (rather than self-awareness), what form of training would anyone recommend?
I am a staunch supporter of Israeli Krav Maga. This a no-nonsense straight forward system of self defense. Many schools are adopting this method of S.D. in their curriculum. Defending yourself in a life or death situation is no joke and Krav Maga is no joke...you better be in good shape, your life may depend on it. I am the designer of the Red Man XP self defense suit that is sold exclusively to Law Enforcement agencies and I have trained with such agencies in the use of it in their curriculum. I know about the use of lethal force and it is a thin fine line. I have been to the H&K training facilities in DC (after 9/11 and during the DC sniper shootings) and underwent training in the use of firearm defense tactics and the use of our WDS (Weapons Defense Suit) protective suit (designed by me and a coworker) using Simunition weapons which fire paint ball type projectiles. The Police/SWAT teams use our gear to train in exclusively, so I am qualified and I highly recommend Krav Maga training. Here's our website for the Red Man gear http://www.redmangear.com/
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I agree that Krav Maga is really good. You can also look at many other forms of combat or fighting training. Brazillian Ju Juitsu is very good. Thai Boxing is very good. If you are only planning on defending yourself against attackers I don't suggest you study any of them. They are also aimed at exercise and relaxing. I know it sounds stupid to say you go to A BJJ class to relax but there is something to working out like that.
My personal self defense choice goes with Silat.
Jerome Finley
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Braz. JJ wasn't so great the other night (UFC 60).
What a rough defeat for Royce to take.
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