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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » DAY from any DATE (13 steps to mentalism) (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Brash
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Quote:
On 2002-12-09 18:49, jdclarkson wrote:

Brian, I don't deride mentalists, let alone *constantly* deride them. I have, on many occasions, posted that I think mentalists have a lot to offer to performing arts and that many, especially the more accomplished, have been very helpful. And, Brian, I have tried to be careful to use words like "some", "often," etc. when describing traits I dislike, precisely because I think the majority of mentalists are not represented by the comments of a few, and have said so explicitly on more than one occasion. It is simply that Nicolas (papwemba), after a post suggesting that discussing algorithms for determining a day from a date was inappropriate, nearly apologized for raising the topic. I didn't think he needed to.


John,

I'm not questioning your motives for posting. I agree that criticizing Nicolas for posting helpful information on a subject which is not, in my opinion, secret is unfair. Rather he should be commended for taking the time to share such information.

It is not necessary for you to edit past posts. I merely wish to make you aware that your remarks about mentalism, sometimes intended as wit, can create a negative reaction. Mentalism has its share of straw men, but perhaps there are gentler ways to tear them down.

Best,

Brian

:)
Marduke Kurios
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Interesting to use the term 'straw men'. What do you mean by that?
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John Clarkson
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On 2002-12-09 20:53, Brash wrote:
Quote:
John,

I'm not questioning your motives for posting. I agree that criticizing Nicolas for posting helpful information on a subject which is not, in my opinion, secret is unfair. Rather he should be commended for taking the time to share such information.


I agree, Brian, that the criticism tends to discourage inquiry and a spirit of comradeship and should be discouraged.

Quote:
It is not necessary for your to edit past posts. I merely wish to make you aware that your remarks about mentalism, sometimes intended as wit, can create a negative reaction. Mentalism has its share of straw men, but perhaps there are gentler ways to tear them down.

Best,

Brian
:)


You are right, Brian, I can be pretty heavy handed. I appreciate your pointing it out. It will be good exercise for me to try another way...

Regards,

John
John D. Clarkson, S.O.B. (Sacred Omphaloskeptic Brotherhood)
Cozener

"There is nothing more important to a magician than keeping secrets. Probably because so many of them are Gay."
—Peggy, from King of the Hill (Sleight of Hank)
Brash
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Quote:
On 2002-12-09 21:07, Marduke Kurios wrote:
Interesting to use the term 'straw men'. What do you mean by that?


Essentially it refers to an argument which is superficial or weak, often used to distract from something else. The term "knocking down straw men" is used to refer to the process of refuting such arguments. I would suggest referring to a dictionary for the exact definition.

Back on topic, I just want to repeat the recommendation of the Be A Genius site above. It gives excellent coverage of the method for performing this type of calculation.
Ted Lesley
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Hello Friends:

There is an interesting version for this trick in the book:

"The Art Of Eddie Joseph"

check that up! Smile
Ted Lesley

( The "Victor Borge" of Mentalism )
mystic1
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Those who do not respect the necessity to keep the secrets of mentalism should not have access to them.

Apparently, this thread illustrates perfectly that this applies to more than just the curious public.
Brash
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Quote:
On 2002-12-10 12:05, mystic1 wrote:
Those who do not respect the necessity to keep the secrets of mentalism should not have access to them.

Apparently, this thread illustrates perfectly that this applies to more than just the curious public.



Mystic1, the formulas for determining days for dates are used everywhere including calendar software. It is not a secret, and certainly not a "secret of mentalism".

Suggesting it is is like saying that we shouldn't discuss the meanings of the lines on the palm of the hand in public.
Thoughtreader
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I beleive that Mystic is refering to the "it's only a ***ed secret" mentality that permeates the air here in the Café. "Gee, I'm a magician too. I do the twenty one card trick and so you can tell me how to do that. I won't tell anyone".

PSIncerely Yours,
Paul Alberstat
http://www.stores.ebay.ca/ABstagecraft
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http://www.mindguy.com
AB StageCraft
http://www.mindguy.com/store
Luke Kerr
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Quote:
Thank you, Luke, and now, if you will kindly direct me to specific posts in which I say "mentalists are this or that," I will edit them to make sure it is clear that I am not referring to ALL mentalists...


http://www.wonderworkshop.de/board/viewt......;start=0

Hear you say that mentalist spend a lot of time criticizing magician and that they are arrogant.
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......forum=15

Here you talk about the civility of the average mentalist.
in 2 post in the same page in one you say

" may simply be my selective attention, Dr. Morton, but if you will compare the level of incivility in the areas of the Café frequented most by mentalists with that in the other areas of the forum, you may see what I mean"
to be right after this you apologize telling that is about not all mentalist

In your last 17 post 7 is on this theme.

And all the posts are after your rejection and your posts on nailwriter(where you say at one point that you want to go away from such an incivil place)
John Clarkson
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[quote]On 2002-12-10 17:44, Luke Kerr wrote:
Quote:
Thank you, Luke, and now, if you will kindly direct me to specific posts in which I say "mentalists are this or that," I will edit them to make sure it is clear that I am not referring to ALL mentalists...

http://www.wonderworkshop.de/board/viewt......;start=0

Hear you say that mentalist spend a lot of time criticizing magician and that they are arrogant.

Well, not exactly. In fact, not even close! See below.
Quote:
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=16203&forum=15
Here you talk about the civility of the average mentalist.
...

I said nothing about the "average mentalist." I am not even sure what that would mean. I talked about an average "level of incivility..."

Quote:
...

And all the posts are after your rejection and your posts on nailwriter(where you say at one point that you want to go away from such an incivil place)


Actually, Luke, it was during, not after, the application process to another forum that I first became aware of what I have described as a higher average level of incivility. In fact, several members of that very forum sent me e-mails to apologize for the incivility of some of their colleagues. Lest you misinterpret that last sentence, let me say that I have also developed some pleasant (and helpful) on-line relationships with other mentalists as a result of that application process. I know it would bolster your case to assume that the rejection of my application to that forum was somehow the cause of my posts, but you'd simply be wrong to assume that.

Luke, I surmise that English is not your native language, and I will, therefore, be forgiving, preferring to believe that you have not purposely edited my posts to make them seem like I said something I never said. I will, unless you give me reason to believe otherwise, believe that you merely have failed to understand the nuances of the language rather than that you have made a deliberate attempt to deceive.

In the first post you cite (from another forum), I was talking about the attitude of one particular mentalist. He and I, by the way, subsequently worked out our differences. I wonder, though, why you failed to quote the last paragraph of the post (bolded emphasis added here):
"There is an elitism -- an arrogance, if you will -- that I wish I did not hear expressed so often by so many mentalists in the on-line forums. It often seems to be related to a desire not to be seen as magicians. I don't really understand the sometimes acerbic statements about magicians and find them generally unattractive. The mentalists I have met personally are generally nice people; because of their silence, though, they seem to be under-represented in cyber-space."

In the other two posts you cite (from this forum), here is what I actually said. I have joined the two posts you cite, simply as a matter of convenience. I have added bold face to emphasize the parts you apparently did not understand:

"One difference is that there seems to be, in my experience, a lower average level of either social skills or civility amongst mentalists than magicians. I am not sure what the defensiveness is all about, and it can easily put one off. I urge you not let it get to you. Many, especially the more accomplished, are actually very helpful.

"It may simply be my selective attention, Dr. Morton, but if you will compare the level of incivility in the areas of the Café frequented most by mentalists with that in the other areas of the forum, you may see what I mean. I also noted that this does not necessarily generalize to ALL mentalists (and don't believe it does)."

So, Luke, if you read the entirety of my posts, you will see that I have not only allowed for the possibility that I have misperceived ("it may be my selective attention..."), have been careful to use words that are clearly NOT designed to described ALL mentalists ("AVERAGE level..." and "does not generalize to ALL mentalists), but have even gone further: I have made it clear that I think the better mentalists are helpful and worthwhile.

Luke, if you insist on discussing this further, let's do it in private e-mail so as not to contribute to the number of posts on this topic, since, that, too, seems to disturb you. But, if we chat, I really won't have much patience with you if you misquote me, or quote me out of context.

Good luck.

Smile
John D. Clarkson, S.O.B. (Sacred Omphaloskeptic Brotherhood)
Cozener

"There is nothing more important to a magician than keeping secrets. Probably because so many of them are Gay."
—Peggy, from King of the Hill (Sleight of Hank)
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