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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Nothing up my sleeve... » » Hanging coins or Hidden coins? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Dan Watkins
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"Nowhere Palm" is a third finger curl palm. It's Geoff Latta's he teaches it on the NYC Coin Magic Seminar DVD.
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Rik Chew
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Thanks Dan, Ill read that review! What advantages does the Nowhere plam have over say the Ramsay Subtelty?
Nathan Kranzo
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These two palms are nothing like each other. Other than the fact they both use the hand. : )

Fingers a spread and palm is seen empty. I'd say that is one great advantage.

All the best,

Nathan
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Rik Chew
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Obviosuly knowing ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about this, I'm toally unqualified to comment, but from first impressions it seems to me this would be pretty angley, and little difference would be perceived by the spectators from RS. Of course I'm probably completely wrong?
Rik
Rob Elliott
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Although slightly more "angley" than Ramsay subtlety, the hand appears more open and will go much further to convince your spectators of an empty hand.
Kainoa
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Quote:
On 2006-05-19 15:13, Sleightly Small wrote:
Obviosuly knowing ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about this, I'm toally unqualified to comment, but from first impressions it seems to me this would be pretty angley, and little difference would be perceived by the spectators from RS. Of course I'm probably completely wrong?
Rik


Then obviously you say things like this in order to get those who do possess a modicum of information about Nowhere palm to comment about it. Excellent technique to engender discussion.

Nowhere palm was also published as third finger curl palm in Kurtz's Unexplainable Acts, so it's been in print for awhile.

It's incredibly popular in Japan, or at least is prolific in the work of some of the top coin guys.

Angley, yes, but, unlike Ramsay you can actually have a nice fat gap between your second and third fingers. The audience can see into the hand even more than they can when you use RS. Like Tenkai and edge grip, you have to keep the coin in the same plane (no wrist rotation like with RS), but you can make it work table hopping. Throw in a steeple chase discrepancy and make yourself happy. Or you can also rotate the stack or single into nowhere from Ramsay fp and out again to take advantage of both. The position also provides a lot of room in the rest of the hand, so if you need to manage some other coins it's a useful position to have under your belt.
rutabaga
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It sounds like Sleightly might be misenvisioning [is that a word?] the alignment of the coin in NP...
Rik Chew
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Wow some long words: misenvisioning and modicum and engender! I take it that's a compliment Kainoa, but (not trying to engender anyhting here) I'm not too sure. As for any misenvisionment, It seems quite hard to if this is really a curlpalm with 3rd finger, I'm aware of Roths take with the middle middle finger.
rutabaga
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.. then you've pretty much got the idea!
Kainoa
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Yeah, those seven-plus letter words make me say "wow," too, Sleightly (nine letters--wow). Misperceive perhaps, and no, I don't think you are. It's a touchy palm position that requires a lot of audience awareness and practical usage, but is noticably cleaner than RS at times: as I hinted at above, the palms work best when working together.
Rik Chew
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Sorry this has got ever so 'sleightly' off topic, but thanks for the the ideas on NWP. Some things to practice, like getting from NWP to RS, becasue I wouldn't use NWP for a display of a coin on the same hand, but to be honest I wouldnt use RS often, but between the two its RS. Also, I think you cna get a reasonable amount of movement with the wrist, and you can always clsoe the fingers slightly whilst moving from one hidden spot to another across an area where the coin could be seen.
Is there stuff about NWP on CoE?
Rik
Kainoa
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This is a great digression, since I've seen NWP used for the original topic.

Quote:
On 2006-05-20 06:34, Sleightly Small wrote:
Is there stuff about NWP on CoE?
Rik


Yes, both directly and indirectly. There are a number of stack transfers I use in my work that utilize NWP. I also say something mean at some point like "and obviously with minor adjustments the moves just described for EG can be done with NWP. Good luck!"

I think besides Latta, Shoot Ogawa has some work with it (though I might be confusing real life with DVDs at this point) as does Garrett. As I said earlier, it's a position that seems to appeal to Japanese magicians more than it does to Americans but has a lot of uses.
Rik Chew
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Wonder why the American/Japanese spit is, maybe Japanese hand gestures are more suited to NP than western ones?
What is the advnatage of doing NP with the 3rd finger as opposed to the 2nd. It would seem that using the 2nd figner would be useful to roll the stack/coin into edge grip?
Rik
wsduncan
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Quote:
On 2006-05-18 15:31, Nathan Kranzo wrote:
Bill Duncan also has a great routine that teaches a very good transfer which shows both hands empty. This is great because it is done during the transfer of a single coin and not a hand washing.

Thanks for the plug Nate! Smile
I think it's a "good" routine that teaches a "great" transfer, but I'm far from unbiased... Unloading the shuttle is the hidden gem in Tubthumping, and you can bet I have lots of other uses for the move. I chose to teach it in the context of Hanging Coins because the book was about fixing problems and that's one place where lots of folks get uncomfortable with the routine.

The point that I think is being overlooked here is that it doesn't matter where you hide the coins, it matter how you hide them. Stay with me here...

If you put coins into some weird location (edge grip and JWGrip are perfect examples) and then make a big deal about how the coins can't be seen all you do is convey the impression you are hiding coins.

If you put the coins into edge or JW grip in the context of a well constructed routine, and your body language and attitude convey that the coins are gone it will look like magic, not like clever concealment.

On his DVD about Ramsay's coin work John Carney tells a story about a conversation Jean (who wrote Coin Magic, before Bobo and Kaufman) Hugard had with Dai Vernon. The professor had heard about John Ramsay and asked what was so special about his magic. Hugard said, “Well Vernon, he take a coin and makes it disappear.”

Vernon said, “So what does he do? Does he sleeve it, or lap it, or back clip it?”

Hugard replied, “You’re not listening. He takes a coin and he makes it disappear!"

Ramsay didn’t use JW grip, or Edge Grip and he certainly didn’t use the Ramsay Subtlety the way you see amateurs using it these days, he just took a coin, and made it disappear.
info2victor
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Yes, I think one nice way is to imply your hand is empty. This can be achieved by manipulating the remaining visible coin(s) like flipping them. The "standard" hanging coins allows you to flex your wrist to show your palm empty, while the EG allows you to flip the coins in your fingertips.

As for the JW grip, a very clever way is to grap your glasses frame (if you are wearing one) with your fingers, as if you are readjusting your glasses to find the gone coin. I saw that in Eric Jones video and it was neat.
It only takes a minute to learn how it is done, but takes a lifetime to learn how to do it.

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